Why did Ezzard Charles get the Marciano title fight and not Nino Valdes or Harold Johnson?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Devon, Sep 1, 2024.


  1. Devon

    Devon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    They both beat him consecutively then had a good few consecutive wins without ever fighting for the HW title, but Charles gets 2 then fights for the HW title.
    Does anyone know why this was?
     
  2. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Because he was #1 contender.

    It is an oft repeated myth that Valdes was made #1. He wasn't, which was the right call, because Valdez had lost 4 of 5 before going into the Charles fight. It wasn't enough to get him the spot.

    After Valdes beat Charles, the #1 spot briefly went to Dan Bucceroni. After the Wallace win, Charles was reinstated at #1.

    You are going to hear a bunch or nonsense about this, but this is the answer, easily verifiable with about three minutes of research.

    Johnson was still ranked as a LHW, for whatever reason.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2024
  3. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Honestly I’d prefer Satterfield vs. Marciano over either of those matches lol, not that Bob deserved it or that he would stand much of a chance but what a bloodbath it would’ve been
     
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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    At the end of 1953 and 54 Valdes was the Ring's number one contender. After Valdes beat Charles he took his place as the Ring's number one contender .

    Nino Valdes 204 lbs beat Tommy Jackson 190 lbs by TKO at 2:35 in round 2 of 10
    • Date: 1954-07-14
    • Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USA
    • Referee: Al Berl
    "Nino Valdes, an 11-5 underdog, overwhelmed the listless Hurricane Jackson, who showed only one brief flash of the fiery newcomer who beat Rex Layne, Clarence Henry and Dan Bucceroni in his exciting rise from prelim boy to No. 5 contender. In the 1st round, the Cuban thumped at Jackson's body with both hands. Shifting to the head when Jackson came out for the 2nd, Valdes drove his man half through the ropes with a solid right. Although the timekeeper counted to four, referee Al Berl ruled no knockdown. Another right sent Jackson to the floor and he was up at '2'. Another flurry drove Jackson to his knees for the count of '1'. The 3rd knockdown that ended the bout was disputed by many in the crowd as a push, but referee Berl ruled knockdown and the fight was over at 2:35 of the 2nd." -Associated Press

    Post fight comment

    • "He had nothing. Everybody expect us to go to body, we go to head in 2nd round. I knock out Marciano in 4 rounds." -Nino Valdes
    • "Valdes rates the next shot at Marciano after the rematch with Charles that we hope to run in September." -Harry Markson, managing director of the IBC
     
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  5. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes he was, he was publicly announced as #1 following his KO of 5th-ranked Heinz Neuhaus in late '53.

    "Nino Valdes, the lanky Cuban who holds the Central American and Cuban heavyweight crowns, has taken over the No. 1 position of heavyweight contender in Ring magazine's world ratings announced today.
    Valdes, the first foreign heavyweight in years to become No. 1 contender, proved his right to a shot at Rocky Marciano's title by knocking out European titleholder Heinz Neuhaus in the fourth round at Dortsmound, Germany, according to Ring."

    "LaStarza dropped to second spot, Ezzard Charles is in third and Dan Bucceroni in fourth place."


    He remained #1 until early March the next year, when he was dropped from the spot following a tougher-than-expected SD win over Archie McBride. By that time, there were already talks for a Marciano-Charles fight in June.

    "CHICAGO, Jan. 14 (AP) -- The handlers of Ezzard Charles, former heavyweight champion, will meet with Jim Norris, International Boxing Club president, and Al Weill, manager of the champion, Rocky Marciano, in New York next week to discuss a title bout between Marciano and Charles."
    ----------------------------------------

    The real answer to the OP's question is that Charles got the shot by massive popular demand - it was the fight that both the public & political figures in boxing most wanted to see, particularly after the sensational KOs of Wallace & Satterfield, & it was a huge event once it finally came off. Even though Charles had lost 2 of his previous 3, it was generally acknowledged throughout the buildup to the Satterfield fight that the winner would get the next crack @ Rocky's title.
     
  6. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ezzard Charles v Satterfield was a title eliminator.

    Per boxing rec the IBCs secretary said after the fight "Charles has earned the chance. It will not be necessary for him further to prove his right as the No. 1 contender."

    Then the first fight was close enough to run back for a rematch and you get a rematch.

    The reality is Charles being a legendary former champ stacked the deck in his favor. He wasn't going to be treated the same way a contender with his last two years would be treated. People wanted to see the two champs who were only a few years apart in age fight. Valdes did have a 4 fight losing streak before his win streak and Charles did better against Harold Johnson so you could make an outside case for him. And that was enough.
     
  7. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

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  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    The Ring's heavyweight ratings for May 1954 were as follows:

    (Ratings dated May 20)

    Champion: Rocky Marciano

    1. Ezzard Charles
    2. Nino Valdes
    3. Don Cockell
    4. Jimmy Slade
    5. Tommy Jackson
    6. Roland La Starza
    7. Dan Bucceroni
    8. Earl Walls
    9. Heinz Neuhaus
    10. Tommy Harrison
     
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  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Yes this is accurate. Valdes earned number 1 status twice from 53-55 losing this status for a few months in 54. Charles was ranked number 1 when he fought Marciano. The performance Charles put on in fight number 1 certainly warranted this ranking.

    Valdes definitely should have gotten a title shot over Cockell. Cockell was a joke, and Marciano knew it. That said, I have plenty of articles. Weill is quoted as saying he will fight Valdes next. Weill literally said “both Valdes and Cockell will get their shot.” Cockells camp simply came to an agreement first for a date in San Francisco. Weill wanted to sign a fight with Valdes in Miami where they would draw a large crowd with Cuban trade. Bottom line.. Valdes was going to get his title shot right after Cockell. Marciano’s camp had no fear of Valdes. Marciano would have fought a bear if they asked him to.

    Why Valdes agreed to that world title eliminator with a red hot Archie Moore (Las Vegas recognized it as a world championship fight) I’ll never know. it was an extremely dumb decision by Valdes’ impatient manager. All he had to do was sit and wait, and Marciano would have signed to fight Valdes next after Cockell.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2024
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    First of all Charles was ranked number 1 when he fought Marciano

    The Ring's heavyweight ratings for May 1954 were as follows:

    (Ratings dated May 20)

    Champion: Rocky Marciano

    1. Ezzard Charles
    2. Nino Valdes
    3. Don Cockell
    4. Jimmy Slade
    5. Tommy Jackson
    6. Roland La Starza
    7. Dan Bucceroni
    8. Earl Walls
    9. Heinz Neuhaus
    10. Tommy Harrison


    As for Harold Johnson, he had a simple choice. Pursue a world title fight vs Marciano at heavyweight or pursue a world title fight vs Moore at light heavyweight. Harold opted for the light heavyweight championship fight vs Moore in 1954 instead. Harold was ahead on points when Moore cleaned his clock in round 14. By this point, Archie had cleaned out the entire light heavyweight and heavyweight division and began actively campaigning publicly for a Marciano title fight. Moore was by far the most accomplished contender of the era and Marciano’s legacy defining fight. Marciano had to fight Moore in 55 or it would have been an outrageous duck


    Harold Johnson- Marciano would have been interesting until Rocky landed on that fragile chin of Harold. Good night Harry!
     
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  11. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Back then, fighters typically didn't have the luxury of sitting on rankings for an extended period of time - they lived from payday to payday, so a big $ offer like the Moore fight wasn't something they could afford to forgo. Aside from that, a fighter that tried to sit on his ranking was liable to lose it, which is essentially what happened to Valdes in '54.

    Charles penned an article for The Ring prior to the 1st Marciano fight titled "I Believe." IIRC, he said that he had pushed for a rematch w/ Valdes, but Valdes' team wanted too much $ for it to happen. I can understand Valdes' people not wanting to take an unnecessary risk by rematching Charles after already beating him, but in retrospect, a rematch win over Charles would've all but assured Valdes the next shot @the Hw title.
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Valdes camp bet on the wrong horse…Archie Moore. Moore was simply on the hottest winning streak of his career 1952-1955 and they should have stayed far away from him. Especially after he knocked out Harold Johnson (who had just beaten Charles)…

    They should have signed a rematch with Charles instead of Moore.
     
  13. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya The REAL Wonder Woman! Full Member

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  14. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ring Magazine is completely irrelevant. It is not a sanctioning organization. It has nothing to do with the title.
     
  15. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ring Magazine is completely irrelevant. It is not a sanctioning organization. It has nothing to do with the title.
     
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