Teddy's pessimistic view of Tyson's record says he should be "0 and 6"

Yeah I saw that podcast and it came off like Atlas had a big grudge with Tyson.

Tyson was an amazing fighter. And he was usually smaller with less reach than his opponents a lot of what he had came from determination. I saw somewhere that even Holyfield said he could not match Tysons work ethic in the gym.

 

Mike was mentally unstable, not even him denies that.... so people will call Teddy names because he is overdramatic but he is fundamentally right.

 

Tyson was a hard worker, a physical dynamo and very skilled...... mentally he was not the toughest, his quote "everybody got a plan until..." is not a good quote, because it does not work that way, you can´t say **** it once things go bad... forget boxing, you can´t be that way in any line of work...

 

Agree.
No man that steps into a boxing ring and deal with the pain it takes to just be decent is a " "Gutless Bully".
Much less a man that got to the heights of Mike Tyson".

 

This is and has always been true in sport:

Winners adjust. Losers make excuses.

(In Tyson’s case, he doesn’t have to — he has an army of fanbois to make them for him.)

 

I'm going to rewrite history and say Jack Dempsey KO 1 Marciano in their 1955 title fight

 

Teddy's is absolutely FOS. You can't blame Tyson for steamrolling a division and not finding enough roadblocks in his way despite the proven talent he faced.

And then there were the Ruddock fights. He didn't have to dig deep in those?

 

The problem is, the brave showings are outnumbered by the times he took the easy way out.

 

Are we talking post-prison Mike? That wasn't the same guy. The reality is that from the get Mike was a tiny heavyweight relying purely on speed, balance and timing to generate the fight deciding power that he did. Given his stature, there was no possible Plan B. Three years off and those elements, speed, balance and timing, were never coming back 100%, especially when alcohol and cocaine were involved.

But Mike had 40 fights over 6 years in which he was a force of nature and beat some great talents, the best of his generation at heavyweight. Very few champs clean out the division in the manner he did. I will always take him over Marciano, Frazier and Dempsey, similar fighters to him, because the emphatic manner in which he accomplished what he did.

And Teddy Atlas just sucks. Ruined Povetkin's potential, too.

 

Atlas has said this on his own podcast previously. I think it's a bit unfair really. While I understand the point he is making - that Tyson folded when he faced adversity - there are examples in his career where things weren't going all his own way - and he still pulled out the win (Ruddock, for example). I don't think it's necessarily fair to dismiss all of a fighters losses as being under the same banner : most fighters lose at some point and there'll be a variety of reasons.

 

Yes, he wasn’t the same, which only serves my point. When he had youth, desire, a set of skids greased for him, through nature & nurture…essentially, when it was all flat track & downhill…he looked a million dollars. When things got harder, he didn’t rise to the challenge & overcome adversity.

Muhammad Ali, “wasn’t the same guy,” after his lay-off, & especially the FotC. George Foreman wasn’t, “the same guy,” after a ten year absence. Such men are simply made of more.

 

Yeah, my math is all the way messed up haha.

 

All the heavies out of the same mold, with that kill or be killed style, undersized, relying on speed and attack, had a similar length of prime. Frazier, Dempsey, Marciano (well, some speed)... There was nothing unique in Mike's decline, even at the very top level. He simply didn't have the physical tools and style to maintain a long stay at the top, regardless of his mental issues. But what he lacks in longevity he more than makes up in brilliance.

 

Tanya Atlas is just sore that he could not get on the Tyson $$$$$ train..............a absolute Nobody.

 

It is precisely when you are not in your prime - when the chips are down - that you are revealed. Frazier in Manila is an example. It’s easy when you’re 21 & hungry. When things turned against him, he failed the gut check.