Sonny Liston never blinded Muhammed Ali. Well, not with chemicals.

Thomas Dolby always claimed he was blinded by science.

 

If Sonny knocked his eyeball back into his head why was he able to go back to his hotel and have ice cream with Sam Cooke, Jim Brown, and Malcom X and not go to a hospital? This is well documented.

 

Hi Buddy.
I must say you present a tour de force of why you and Dundee think that Liston's corner couldn't have put any liquid/ substance on his gloves, firstly let me the following is my friendly and kind ( I hope ) of ever so slightly raising some doubt about whether there was anything on Liston's gloves , because Dundee and your good self have it that, it didn't happen, doesn't make it so, as esteemed as Angelo was, you say the Monsels solution was ( at the time ) used as a treatment for cuts, but then you go on to quote a piece about if the solution gets in a fighters eyes, you must immediately flush the eye for 15 minutes, well that confuses me, because if it was used for treating cuts, and most of the cuts that fighters get are normally around the eyes, how can that be squared ? also you make plenty of Liston being very strong , which he was, but Clay himself had a very hard jab later in his career, Holmes also had a formidable jab, plus lots of lighter fighters have had good hard jabs, so why is only in this fight that it happened, also not sure how hard and often Liston hit Clay with his jab during the fight, but I would imagine lots of his former foes, who would have been a lot slower than Clay, have shipped hundreds of Listons jabs. and not received the injury, also if the top of the head is sturdier than the bottom, as is the claim, that would make the facial structure stronger around the eye, which is at the top of the head no ? also you state that there are lots of reasons that only Liston performed this " feat " citing the opponents were far below him, well, just because a fighter is inferior to Liston in the skill set, or a lighter puncher, or not as strong , it doesn't pan out that it would happen to them, as it plainly didn't, otherwise dozens of his opponents over his career, would have suffered the same injury, as I have understood your theory.
In closing, just like to say take the above in the spirit it is meant, not to provoke an argument,not to belittle you or you post, you have been here for a while now, and apart from an early overindulgence in fighting Listons case against posters that were trolling , you have become a valued and prominent member of the forum, some would have been a lot more callous and vindictive if they chose to pick your post apart, not me.
That said, look forward to other posters comments and thoughts on your detailed and very interesting comments, maybe I have got it wrong.
stay safe SL, chat soon buddy.

 

Jack McKinney, the Philadelphia newspaper writer and radio talk show host, claimed that Joe Pollino (Liston's trainer) admitted privately that Liston ordered him to apply an astringent to his gloves. McKinney said this long after Pollino had died. I do not consider McKinney to be a reliable source.

Liston didn't have a "dirty" reputation. He did use some rough tactics, most notably holding and hitting when he had an opponent trapped on the ropes (see Liston-Patterson 1 and Liston-Bill McMurray). Mike DeJohn complained of a late hit after Sonny floored him, but Liston apologized and said it was accidental. Eddie Machen claimed after the Clay-Liston fight that he, too, had experienced burning eyes against Sonny, but he didn't show any signs of it during their fight. Overall, I would say that Liston fought cleanly.

 

The chance of such damage happening to an eye then miraculously being fine next round after Dundee just happened to work on the eye is a little hard to swallow, particularly given it hasn't happened to anyone's knowledge in the history of boxing. I'd have more chance of winning solo first prize in the lotto 2 weekend running, or three even. I'd much more readily believe an errant thumb but there's never been any talk or evidence of a thumb.

 

But how long after? That's very important.

 

What would have been applied to Liston's shoulder...something like tiger balm? What if Liston then rubbed his shoulder like put pressure on the front deltoid with a closed fist, it seems like there should be footage if that happened but also putting something directly on the gloves should not have gone unnoticed, maybe just bad camera angles

 

Manfred Mann were Blinded by the Light...seems BoxingFan2002 has been Blinded by the Shyte.

 

Spit out my water at this.

 

Oh now Liston is the hardest puncher?
Btw Liston cheated, bad news for you.

 

You really people think that Ali lied and so did Machen and Folley?

It wasn't just Ali that claimed Liston cheated it was claimed by few other fighters including Machen and Folley and maybe even Valdes.

So enough of 100 000 excuses for your hero Sonny who quit and cheated against Ali.

Ali also never changed his claims and never said it was not on purpose because it was on purpose, I don't care what Dundee said.

 

Excellent post.

@SonnyListon> he exposed your hero and your 1000 excuses again.