Did Tyson really duck Lewis in 96?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by NewChallenger, Sep 7, 2024.


  1. Overhand94

    Overhand94 Active Member Full Member

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    What you don't want to understand is that Tyson was the generator of the money, a purse bids would have advantaged Tyson's purse, not Lewis' (see the numbers I posted countless times earlier).
    The problem was that Showtime couldn't rival what HBO could have bided for Tyson's purse (45 million versus a probable 30-35 million for Showtime). Given that Showtime and the MGM Grand had an exclusive contrat with Tyson and payed millions dollars for it, it doesn't take long to figure out why they didn't allow the purse bids.
    And again, the so-called « reasons [you] have enumerated multiple times » were rebutted as even Panos Eliades, Lewis' co-promoter, accepted King's offers only to be told by HBO to refuse.
     
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  2. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So what you’re saying is it comes down to Don King, Showtime and MGM wanted Tyson for below market value, and Mike/Team Tyson would rather give up the WBC belt than pay what the fight was worth.

    That’s called a duck. If HBO was willing to pay the most for the fight, that means the market for it was indeed higher than King’s ‘this is what I have decided you’re worth, Lennox, so this is what you get.’ LL wasn’t playing that.

    Good to see after all this discussion that you’ve finally come around to admitting the fight was worth more on the open market than Don wanted to pay for it.

    If not for King and Tyson’s greed, the fight could have been made. Showtime could have gone to HBO to work it out and say ‘let’s do it on both networks,’ which they did in other cases over the years. Pool their money and made it work so Lennox and Mike both got fair market value. But Mike signed a deal with the devil (King) and the devil wasn’t going to risk his cash cow getting beat up to Lewis. So he ducked him. Mike was probably relieved to get paid to have Seldon take a dive rather than Lennox trying to tear his head off.
     
  3. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    Lewis is not beating Tyson in 96.
    A guy who gets knocked out in 2 rounds by 1 punch from a C-Level fighter is not beating Mike in 96.
    If you actually watch Lewis' fight with Vitali,Briggs,Bruno He was on the verge of being knocked out. only reason he wasn't is because those guys coudln't properly finish someone covering up.

    I used to think Lewis would beat Mike at any time, but I don't after watching enough of Lewis fights. A person with a weak chin can't beta Mike
     
  4. Boxing_Fan101

    Boxing_Fan101 Undisputed Available bookgoodies.com/a/1068623705 Full Member

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    Lewis was never on the verge of getting knocked out he took some shots and carried on throwing bombs he was never on rubbery legs or holding for dear life
     
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  5. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    -.-

    This content is protected
     
  6. Boxing_Fan101

    Boxing_Fan101 Undisputed Available bookgoodies.com/a/1068623705 Full Member

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    At what point was Lewis close to getting knocked out?
     
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  7. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    I'm not attacking you in any way now so don't get offended. You haven't done anything that warrants it

    You just told me that he never had wobbly legs. I just showed you, you said he never held on for dear life, and I just showed you. Usually when you turn your back and run away that usually is a sign of being on the verge of being knocked out. The commentators even say after the end of the 1st round "this was almost Oliver Mccall Revisited". How much more evidence do you need? Briggs just didn't know how to finish.

    This looked very similar to when Evander knocked out Mike the first time as he was rocking all over the place covering up. It also looks very similar to how Mike knocked out Frank Bruno the second time.
     
  8. Boxing_Fan101

    Boxing_Fan101 Undisputed Available bookgoodies.com/a/1068623705 Full Member

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    This is heavyweight boxing and Briggs had power so if he lands some shots they will have an effect but at no point was Lewis out on his feet he rode out the rough patches and knocked him out I don’t see what your argument is that’s no different to Bruno rocking Tyson in 88 and he came back to stop him

    You don’t think Ali was rocked by Foreman of course he was but it doesn’t mean that any of these fights were even remotely close to being stopped that’s not how boxing works
     
  9. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    There is a difference between Mike eating a punch from Bruno and punching away after he got hit and Lewis stumbling all the way back to the ropes then covering up, then running away with his back turned, then holding on to dear life. You said he never had wobbled legs, I showed this, you said he never held on to dear life, I showed you, you have announcers saying this is like Mccall revisited. He staggered just as much against Briggs as he did against Mccall, the only difference is he wasn't knocked down.


    I understand you like a fighter,but at some point you can't just ignore all the evidence. My favourite fighter is arguably Sonny Liston, I have no issue saying that Liston got whipped by Ali twice, and probably would have lost the 2nd fight.

    But to each their own.
     
  10. Boxing_Fan101

    Boxing_Fan101 Undisputed Available bookgoodies.com/a/1068623705 Full Member

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    Tyson was just as rocked against Bruno and was holding on, in the post fight he even admitted to being hurt.

    For the record this is boxing and at the highest level there is nothing wrong with taking a shot it's how you react that separates the greats from the average.

    Briggs has an 88% KO ratio so he does know how to finish and Vitali 91% but neither could even knock down Lewis so his chin can't be that bad and guess what he stopped both before the mid point of each fight who did Tyson beat in their primes that was as good as Vitali or Holyfield?
     
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  11. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    Having KO's and finishing a competent opponent are different things. KO ratio means nothing. if you watch Wlad fight Joshua, he could have won that but didn't finish. And Wlad's KO ratio is 80% something. Lewis was KO'ed by C-Level fighters, so it isn't too crazy to think that he was on the verge of being knocked out. Bruno has a 95% KO ratio, but he still didn't know how to finish a fighter of a higher caliber. Kevin Rooney even said that Bruno had mike hurt in the 1st round but didn't even attempt to finish and Mike came back to KO him in the 5th.

    There isn't much point in discussing obviously as this is one of those debates where one side in my case is open minded, and the other is not gonna budge.

    The argumentation is not good enough.
     
  12. Boxing_Fan101

    Boxing_Fan101 Undisputed Available bookgoodies.com/a/1068623705 Full Member

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    The McCall stoppage can be argued as premature Lewis was hurt but there's a good chance he could have recovered, the Rahman KO was just a great punch landing flush something that can happen at any time.

    What I don't understand is you use Lewis being caught by Briggs and Vitali against him but don't have a problem with Tyson being caught against Bruno or stopped by Douglas

    It's understandable why King didn't want Tyson to go near Lewis a high risk low reward fight especially when they had a bigger more winnable fight with Holyfield

    To claim Lewis was scared of Tyson is again stupid fighters are not afraid of fighting anyone and you can't be the best in the division if you have doubts on your greatness Lewis believed he was the best Heavyweight in the division and according to most he proved it
     
  13. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    The problem is just that you are looking at this slightly from the surface. You see someone getting rocked and you think all of it is the same.

    I see it from a far deeper perspective to where, I don't just see them getting rocked,but I see the effects.

    When you say Mike getting knocked out by Douglas you see a KO. I see a man getting his ass kicked throwing a small number of punches getting brutally beaten over 10 rounds vs getting KOed by 1 single punch in 2 rounds. Lewis was as out as he could be, he was falling into the ropes/corner fell ontop of the referee, he was done. He looked bad against Briggs but it wasn't as bad as freaking leaning into the referee pretending to be fine bad.

    The reason Mike fought Evander was because it was a fight for 6 years in the making for 30 million, it had nothing to do with Lewis being a high risk fight. It is just that giving into Lewis ridicolous demands would be the stupidest business decision you could make.

    And I would give Lewis the slight benefit of the doubt, but Lewis did the same thing with Bowe, so he has a history of this
     
  14. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    It wasn't Tyson t that ducked Lewis it was DON KING !! IT was because he'd heard that Cus said after watching the teenagers Lewis & Tyson spar that one day they'd fight for the title & Lennox would win
     
  15. Boxing_Fan101

    Boxing_Fan101 Undisputed Available bookgoodies.com/a/1068623705 Full Member

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    You are aware the Bowe-Lewis was signed but Lewis lost his tune up fight to McCall cancelling the fight, also you are aware Lewis beat Bowe in the Olympics and that Bowe threw his title in the trash rather than face him.

    Lewis was very eager to face Bowe believing he had the better of him

    Also a one punch knockout due to a lapse in concentration is better than getting beat up and knocked out over ten rounds to a fighter like Douglas
     
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