Sonny Liston's shoulder injury.

Zorra Folley in a book there is part of him saying that he suspected Liston used something to blind him.
So that's 3 guys, are they all lying and Liston somehow accidently blinded 3 guys?
I don't think so.

 

Lie again.
In the interview Ali explained that he was blinded on purpose, that he met a man who offered him to do the same against George Foreman.

But according to you Ali agreed that he was not blinded on purpose...what else is comming, maybe Ali saying Liston beat him?

 

Part of him said so in a book. Brilliant.

What book - The Big Ugly Bear Under My Bed?

Name the book.

All accounts/write ups re Liston vs Folley that I’ve read make no mention of any discernible eye issues for Folley nor do they mention Folley claiming foul play.

Name the book/the source as you were originally requested to do.

 

Yeah, in the vid provided in this thread he basically affirms his belief that he was deliberately blinded.

 

Here is what i think happened:

Ali was a lot faster than Liston expected. Liston swung and swung and kept missing. I suspect that eh aggravated a slight injury from before and it became a much bigger injury.

It's not the reason he lost. If he had a severe injury, he wouldn't have been able to throw huge shots that he was throwing over and over again. Most heavies would have been ko'd in round 1 or 2 with those punches.

Liston got frustrated with Ali's speed and took massive punishment with those big combo's Ali was throwing from round 1. He was bruised and battered and decided to come fight another day.

I don't think Liston could beat Ali ever. Perhaps the 1958-59 version would have a chance. But any version of 1964 Liston couldn't have beaten Ali. Shoulder or no shoulder.

 

In that case Liston was ancient against Ali.
In that case Liston retired against Ali.
So Tyson didn't quit against Holyfield ?
Why are you making this so easy for me ?

 

Some good points, but I'm quite sure Clay would have beaten 1958 Liston easier. In '58 Liston came back from an almost two year absence (jail?), only had had 15 pro fights, never met top quality opposition and never been ranked. His learning curve must have been pretty steep over the coming years and I think he looks clearly better against Williams in '60 than he did against him the year before.

Liston's best was likely around the time he had the fights he looked the best in, namely against Patterson but also Harris, Folley and Williams 2. So early 60's.

 

good point. I suspect that Liston was older than 32. He might have been 34-36. So his physical prime may have been 1958-62 and his overall physical and mental peak was around 1960. I think you are right about the 1958 timeline though.

 

Yeah, his physical prime would have ended around '62 even if he was his official age (which was 30 at the time), but I'd guess he'd continue evolving all throughout '60 with the calibre of opposition he was facing. I don't know the details of his management, but as a nr 1 contender and later champion I would guess he'd also not only have boxing as a full time job, without having to do side giggs as an enforcer and whatnot, but also be able to afford good sparring partners, physios etc, etc - things that come with being at the top.

 

The elephant in the room here is- "Ali talked a lot of BS".

 

I have an interview with Eddie from late 63 when he was on the comeback trail after being sectioned. His excuse for not beating Liston, funny enough, was his own shoulder injury.

 

Sounds like I'll have to go up into the loft and dust of ye ole "Definitely True Gym Tales - Volume XVIII"

 

Pug . Why keep engaging with this fool ?

 

Again absolute rubbish spewed out by you.

 

You can't take the fact that Liston beat Patterson faster than Johannsson did.Why on earth do
you keep shooting yourself in the foot like this ?