The second win was post-heart attack/organ failure Holy. He was at the nadir of his career and actually did a little better later on.
Holyfield was coming off this win over an in-shape Ray Mercer: This content is protected He looked very decent here.
The Mercer who lost to Jesse Ferguson and a post-40 Holmes? That same Ray Mercer, or is there another one I don't know about? Decent win. Nothing more.
Holyfield 1995 was still easily on a par with anyone AJ ever beat. That's probably under-stating it. 39 year-old Povetkin is arguably in AJ's top 2 wins. If Holyfield is not "top end" or "high end" enough opponent in 1995, who the hell are all these "high end" ones that AJ is supposed to have defeated?
Okay let's actually break this down Holyfield 2x, prime Donald, prime Hide, and old Michael Dokes. No embarrassing KO losses. You probably have some sort of reasoning to rate aj so highly but I'll surely take this resume over old Klitschko, old Povetkin, possibly prime Parker, Whyte and 4 losses, 1 of them a TKO7 by Andy Ruiz. ironically a very old Larry Donald was quite competitive with Povetkin so that says a lot
Yeah, the second Holyfield win was a decent win. Not great. Decent. That is exactly the point. Bowe had ONE great win. One.
I don't know how to say it any more simply than I have...Joshua has a much more extensive list of top end wins. Donald, Old Dokes are not top-end wins. Hide was not literally a high-end guy at the time, as he was WBO, which was not greatly recognized. Klitschko, Povetkin, Ruiz, Parker, Whyte is going to at the end of the day be very comparable to Holyfield, Holyfield, Hide, Donald and whatever name you want to add.
Joshua had NONE. He also has worse losses. The counter point is the claim of more "high end wins" but there's really not much there.
Ruiz is not top end. Whyte is not top end. Povetkin was old as hell and losses count. You have a good point about the amount of notable wins but even if they're records are comparable, Bowe has to be greater with full context
I can't believe people are discussing AJ. a good, entertaining fighter, and yes, at the lower end of world class heavyweights in history for my money, with Bowe. And comparing opponents. It rarely works. Apply almost any metric of boxing logic and AJ beats Bowe. But Bowe is almost 60 and not in the best shape. Oh, you meant prime Bowe? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Different gravy, has his way with AJ on the outside and the inside, knocks him out sometime between three and six...
Ruiz and Whyte are top end. If you want to put asterixes, Holyfield was a PEDs cheat, and we don't even know if Bowe was fighting the best, most juiced up version of him. Look, slice it up any way you want. Bowe does not have the title defenses, does not have the body of work, and he's got one great victory. His historical ranking is not that high, period.
No they weren't that's revision. Ruiz was seen as a massive underdog who stood no chance and beat no one before he smashed aj thats why its one of the biggest upsets in history. He recently struggled with the unranked ghost of Luis Ortiz and got a gift draw against Jarell Miller this man was never top end. Whyte ? Don't make me laugh. Larry Donald would box his face off. He got smoked by an old Povetkin, Donald had no legs and still went the distance with prime Povetkin
As has already been delineated, there is not much more. Joshua beat Wlad, and ATG. Sure, Wlad was 41, but Holy is problematic too as a PEDS cheat. We really don't know how good Holy was from fight to fight, because he wasn't a natural great, but a guy who used HGH to blow up from cruiser. Yeah, Joshua has losses, but Bowe has fights that absolutely should have been losses. And Joshua wins on other metrics, liek regaining the title, and overall title defenses. They are comparable.