Most shameless title defences of all time

That’s interesting because it is the man I responded to who declined to answer the question he provoked.

 

George didn't even try. As for Larry, he'll forever be the first fighter with an unblemished record to win 20 consecutive title fights.

Foreman never proved he could win a tile bout longer that five rounds during the 1970's, as that was the latest round he produced a knockdown in during his late teens and 20's. You truly believe he would've knocked out any contender during his reign or any of Larry's challengers inside of five rounds? George didn't pace himself like Shavers and Lyle could, he always looked for the knockout. never a decision win, and he always swung for the rafters. So did WW Cuevas, but Pipino took on guys who could extend him up to the Championship Distance and win protracted wars of attrition.


Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams at the time they challenged Larry? They could move and take George into the late rounds, and both had Championship Distance stamina. I just don't see the speed deficient Foreman somehow stopping them before the late rounds, and both carried dangerous power into double digit rounds.

 

First of all you'd have to consider Holmes a former champion meaning you buy into that alphabet stuff.

 

George didn’t prove he could win a title bout longer than five rounds? Well Larry never proved he could beat an ATG fighter. Not one did he ever beat. Not in a career of 30 years. I’ll take knocking Frazier dead like he was an amateur over Holmes beating up Shavers or Ali thanks.

Again, if we’re going to play the game of what could happen, the sky’s the limit. Holmes wouldn’t have got past 1974 Norton if he’d been in Foreman’s shoes in my opinion. But if you think Witherspoon & Williams are favourites over prime Foreman, I’m all ears. Not interested in long shots.

 

Soft defences “might” be acceptable if you already have or will be taking on and defeating all and sundry (subject to due eligibility) otherwise.

That’s a rare proposition and perhaps guys like Louis and Ali earned that right.

However, a guy like Patterson* afforded Rademacher a shot while later blatantly side stepping his # 1 and # 2 contenders.

* I know D’Amato might be afforded the blame in part but a fighter can still speak up and act for himself if he is sufficiently inclined.

 

Joe Louis took the biggest prize in sports out of mothballs, although Carnera was obviously a fighting champion who defended against two guys who beat the guy who dethroned him. Neither of Primo's successful defenses in less than a year's time was a gimme.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Nobody disputes that Wills deserved a shot at Dempsey, but the guy Harry had his best chance against was Willard, which probably would've been scheduled for 45 rounds. Jack did to Firpo what Foreman did to Frazier, then Wills, in an all important audition, completely failed to impress against Firpo.

Dempsey actually started out very well by the standards of his era, from 1920 to 1923, with five defenses. He wasn't Tommy Burns, but Miske is only questionable in retrospect, and nobody else ever knocked Billy out. Bill Brennan was reasonable enough, had only ever been stopped by Dempsey, was adequately sized and tough, and only Dempsey ever stopped him twice.

Carp obviously produced a record $1,000,000 gate and inaugural radio broadcast with an audience of over 80,000 spectators, the bottom line, regardless of it being considered a mismatch by historians. Jack didn't want to be an inactive champion, but got overruled by Kearns and Rickard. Still, Tommy Gibbons and Firpo were again reasonable defenses.

Greb? P4P GOAT certainly, but a no win situation due to his size. He could've been an extremely hard sell after what happened to the speedy but outsized Carp (who at least could punch a bit).

After an excessive three year hiatus which left him rusty, Dempsey nonetheless lost the title against a challenger who then successfully defended against him after Dempsey knocked out a successor of his conqueror. (Yeah, we all know about that purported low blow, but referee Jack O'Sullivan was in position and ruled no foul below Sharkey's deliberately high belt line.) Aside from Wills, who else should Dempsey have defended against who he didn't? As it was, three of his defenses drew one million dollar gates, and he had five in all for his career. Today, even with Wills on his record, he'd be denigrated for defending against a bunch of bums if he'd been an active champion like Louis.

 

Well, was there an ATG fighter during Larry's reign? You fight who's available. Yes, Foreman bounced Frazier, but that was a diminished post FOTC Frazier. You can see it in his post fight interviews following Daniels and Stander. He admitted only fighting for the money at that stage, and the fire to prove himself was clearly out of oxygen. Jerry Quarry was a younger guy but an ancient fighter by Frazier II, and Joe was clearly not the same for Ellis II in 1975 that he was for Tillis I in 1970.

 

And this is something I've always given George stick for, his lack of resilience in the face of defeat. Get right back on the horse! Don't let Ali put you into a two year hiatus, be Frazier, stepping in with Bugner less than six months after Jamaica. Be Ali, back in the ring with Ellis four months after the FOTC, Ali with Norton II just six months after getting his jaw fractured, or even after the grueling win in Manila, defending the title again only four months later.

Foreman after Ali, two years out. Foreman after Young, a full decade out. Morrison, 17 months out, then only back for the shot at Moorer. Gets robbed against Briggs and quits for good. I absolutely feel he should've gone after Briggs a second time. His only resilient rebound was after Holyfield, an extraordinarily better performance than expected which showed he could go 12 rounds in his 40's and suddenly was taken seriously again.

 

I declined because you implied I was a liar,and rather than get into another flame war I bailed.

 

Top post!

 

I think gimmeees are acceptable between top rated defences.Patterson and Frazier pushed it beyond acceptability imo.Floyd redeemed himself as an exchamp.
Holmes fought Norton with a torn biceps muscle,and for all talk of Norton being done,he was the number 1 contender.
I consider Larry easily top ten all time and would put him about 5 or 6th.
His somewhat abrasive personalty turns some people off,but I'm only concerned with his boxing abilities.

 

George was a very complex man, young and older ...

 

Larry and George were both dominant forces ... George was a unique physical specimen ... huge for his day , close to 230 in his later 20's naturally, his strength was astonishing ... I remember Chuvalo saying no one ever tossed him aside like Foreman did ... could only imagine him on PEDs or whatever they take today ... I feel he was peaking in the post Ali part of his career till he was poorly matched against another very challenging , elusive boxer in Young in the heat and humidity of Puerto Rico ... then he unraveled , showing the limitations of his first career arsenal and was gone for ten years ... his comeback was brilliantly choreographed and his maturity maximized his mutated talents. By displaying grit and humor , performing gallantly vs Holyfield and historically vs Moorer and fated ( and great match making ) never letting us see him on the canvas, he became an icon and a very wealthy man. Kudos to him.

Holmes was a different act all together ... less menacing and charming, kinda funny looking and sounding , he was a extremely talented fighter with a ton of heart and dedication and a world class chip on his shoulder that did not bring out the best of him ... he was also manipulated and manhandled in a career long abusive battle with Don King in King's prime along with a dozen or so other heavyweights that populated that extremely talented but underachieving decade .. to Holmes credit he was the only one that showed the mental strength and physical gifts to hold it together and establish a reign of longevity and dominance while other talented fighters like Dokes, Witherspoons, Page and Thomas could not. This is top hot credit ... he had huge heart and moxie to go with his talents which included size, reach, chin, speed, conditioning, strength and an exceptional jab.

Two legendary fighters ...

 

There are so many in the lower divisions, it's hard to keep track. While records may be incomplete, Zarate defended against Emilio Hernandez, who was 4-4 and would finish at 5-11. He also fought John Kodjo Mensah, who was 1-4 going in, but was reported at the time to be 45-2.

 

Holmes beat 15 ranked fighters Foreman in comparison only beat 6 ranked fighters and that's over 81 fights Holmes beat as many ranked fighters as Foreman did in his whole career in just a few years.

Foreman has the best single win by far but he also lost twice decisively in his 20s where as Holmes only started to lose at age 35.

To suggest this fantasy that Foreman goes on this long unbeaten title reign when he couldn't actually do it in real time in his prime is just that a fantasy.