James J Jeffries?

Pretty sure that I know. When you drag out miners from a barnstorming tour for a title challenge cuz they embarrassed your champ, that's not good.

 

Nobody has a problem calling Holmes a great champ & he presided over a wasteland.

 

Not relative to the slobs Jeffries fought. Sorry, there are levels. Gus Ruhlin wouldn't qualify as a sparring partner for Mista Snipes.

 

& those levels are relative to how much higher Holmes is ranked than Jeffries.

 

Personally, I don’t think it’s too debatable Ney.

Johnson had already long been the eligible # 1 contender before the Hart loss.

The press were already demanding that Jeffries fight Johnson but Jeff stonewalled and sat on the colour line.

Even before the outcome of the Johnson vs Hart fight, Jeffries only entertained the possibility of facing the winner if it was Hart, not Johnson.

For Johnson, whatever the lay of the land and his position atop the heap, the colour line remained firmly in place as far as Jeffries was concerned - despite sections of the media viewing its invoking as an excuse on Jeffries part.

As to the Hart fight itself. Before the fight the ref Greggains made it clear that he would award the decision to the more aggressive fighter, effective or not. A stitch up.

A stitch up because it was meant to pull the rug from underneath the very style that underpinned Johnson’s successes.

Johnson was a laid back counterpuncher - a wholly legitimate style of fighting - and one that would’ve given Jeffries plenty of trouble.

As it was, employing this style, most reports had Johnson punching the absolute **** out of Hart whose face, per most reports again, was badly swollen and marked up by fights end.

However, per Greggains arbitrarily imposed criteria, because Hart always came forward and
grunted/groaned whilst doing so, Marvin was inexplicably awarded the decision.

Nice set up for Jeffries to sail off into the sunset without any “apparent” encumbrances.

 

Who are these men who saw him and those after him?

 

He dominated the White fighters of his era.
Whilst champion refused fights with;
Martin
McVey
Johnson

 

No he didn't he refused fights with Childs and Martin before he was champ.
Never fought;
Joe Butler
George Byers
Klondike

 

Can’t tell ya honestly, just remember it talked about, written on this forum etc maybe @janitor can say but history ain’t my thing.

 

Holmes fought 20 ranked contenders.
Jeffries defended against;
John Finnegan 4-2-4. Finnegan had been ko'd in 4rds by Ruhlin in his last fight.
Jack Munroe7-2-0
Two farcical fights.
Thirty nine years old ,2 years retired Fitzsimmons.
Thirty six years old, 3 years retired Corbett.

 

I woudl say that the footage of him training, which is of a much better quality, clearly points to him having speed and incredible reflexes.

 

It is also true that those older smaller men beat all the younger and bigger contenders.

They were in the ring with him for a reason.

 

I think with all benefits of doubt , these clips are at least equal ...

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There was a poll of boxing writers in 1945, where Jeffries came out at the top.

Obviously after that generation started to die off, he starts to slide down teh rankings.

Obviously many of these men would have seen Johnson Dempsey and Louis.

 

I was probably overrating him a bit 15 or 20 years ago, when I tended to have Jeffries somewhere #3 to #6. I think he's become rather underrated. I think 6-0 vs. Sharkey, Fitzsimmons and Corbett would be good work for anyone, if they'd have come along in that day. The 20-25-finish distances helped Jeffries. Jeffries was seen as a fine athlete who was able to move quickly enough, though more steady than explosive on attack -- think of a starfish steadily if unspectacularly pulling a clam open -- and credited with ability to guard the 'vital' points while enduring other punishment to deliver his own blows. Regrettable Jeffries didn't fight Johnson prior to his first retirement. Jeffries, at the start of his reign, said he would not draw the color line; I think trainer Delaney influenced Jeffries somewhat to the effect that western civilization would be imperiled by a black hvy wt champion. Of course, Delaner later trained Johnson for his bout against Jeffries. Could be Delaney (as Jeffries trainer) thought a good boxer with a shut-down defense might be better avoided.
On the balance, Jeffries should be remembered as one of the greats of the division.