Calzaghe or GGG who is greater

Since you were there you should know they sparred plenty of times and what happened? They even sparred when Ray was helping manage Quincy so your whole Ray would not ever spar Quincy again is not true.
Ray always got a bunch of BS hate all the time from local managers and trainers on a constant basis. I used to think he was a total jerk when he was younger but I am not too sure if it was to safe guard himself from everyone always wanting something from him or talking smack to him.
Ray was just as good as Sugar Ray Robinson and he proved it time after time.

 

Michael Ward was really an amazing boxer who was from Palmer Park and turned pro when he was 18 and was signed to a contract which provided him with an apartment and spending money.
He was soooo freaking fast it was sick and he was used in sparring by Leonard- I forget which fight- but he did a number on Ray and I think he even knocked Ray down and I know he dropped a young Meldrick Taylor in sparring as well.
But the problem is that supposedly Ward hated to train hard and it was whispered that he liked to do drugs- crack from what I remember.
He fought on the Holyfield vs Douglas card and ended up being on the wrong side of a decision that honestly I thought he had done enough to win. But he seemed like he did not care during the fight-almost disinterested.
Soon people got tired of trying to get him to train and his drug use supposedly got worse. I believe he ended up getting shot and killed by the Police years later in another state after a series of robberies he had committed.
Derrick Holmes supposedly was even more talented then Leonard if you listen to the old timers and was basically ignored because at the time he was I think a jr.feather and there was not alot of money at the time in that division. I know he fought Gomez but everyone claims he was pretty strung out then. The old timers claimed it was Derrick that showed Leonard alot of the moves he would latter use.

 

Proksa,stevens and murata were also pretty good wins

 

The first Canelo fight was not a robbery, much less the second one. Sorry, the way modern boxing is scored that fight cannot be a robbery, if Golovkin won big the rounds he won or whatever, that doesnt change that in, at least 6 rounds, things were even in that fight. Golovkin had other 2 chances and he went 36 rounds without getting anything done. People were banging on about how he would stop Canelo...
Really wasn´t a robbery. But hey people that were too invested on Golovkin and Canelo is not well liked, so...

 

Everyone has an opinion & rightly so. I Do not agree when you say Leonard was as good as Robinson though.
He didn't do right by Donald Curry did he ? Went behind his back to get the Hagler fight for himself when he was supposedly retired due to a detached retina & helping Donald. Don't know what happed to Quincy. I know King had a hand in him losing the WBC title to Keith Holmes who was managed by Kings stepson Carl. Quincy said king wanted him to sign with him & he moved away from Dallas to Vegas. He only fought once more & dissapeared

 

Agree with you on Curry Ray did him really dirty and the way reacted to Curry I always wondered did he view Curry as a threat because he sure acted like that.
Quincy was a good boxer with good power but he would get caught waiting too much like he did with Norris.Speed bothered Quincy as well and throw in the fact that as a boxing manager Ray sucked pretty bad.
I remember Ray's team being interested in a stablemate of mine and he asked me what I thought and I told him I did not see Ray as a very good manager.
But the deal was too sweet to pass as they promised a number of certain fights a year to him and they basically treated him like a king.
So he won his first 7/8 fights and they fly him out to Vegas for a fight. Limo picks him up and drives him to where everr he wants to go.
Nice hotel room. Ray stops by and gives him a pep talk and such.
Ends up losing a one sided decision and basically being outclassed. Gets dressed comes out and there is nobody there. No limo. No Ray or anyone from Ray's team. Goes back to the hotel which is no longer reserved for him even though he was told by the "team" it was his for another day. Thankfully they had put his luggage to the side so he got that back but he ended up having to pay for his own flight back home!!!!

 

That's typical Leonard

 

In all honesty, Golovkin beat Canelo twice and would stomp Martinez and defeat Pavlik as well in my opinion. Quincy Taylor would make GGG's highlight reel as well. The way i see it GGG has only one loss and that was the trilogy fight vs Canelo at the age of 40, which would make Golovkins title defense record 24 consecutive with 20 by KO. Golovkin would have been 44-0 ( 37 ) going into the trilogy fight in which he lost 115-113.

 

Not really.....

 

Not too much between them but Joe, he’d win H2H too if that matters. I think Hopkins at 40 is probably a better win than anything GGG did, that version might even replicate GGG’s entire run if he maintains the same age with forum magic but really I don’t know, I don’t watch either anymore or enjoy them enough to think too hard on it lol.

 

It's interesting how so many rate fighters differently as you mention H2H. Some even rate solely h2h basis. For me, for example, I think Hearns clearly won the second fight against SRL. So accordingly, I rate Hearns a tiche higher for it, and SRL lower subsequently. With the OP comparison, its probably Joe. BUT I think GGG outpointed Canelo twice so I rate him accordingly. So with that, its GGG clearly for me

 

Do most here think Hopkins beat Calzaghe ? Not calling it a robbery but you could have it either way...

 

I think unless you’re slowing it down and nerding out the judges made the right call IMO - I however did pick Hopkins for the decision.

 

At the time of the fight, it was quite popular to say Hopkins had won the fight.... I personally thought so, I think I never rewatched that fight, and have no desire to because I remember how bad it was...

 

Yeah, I didn’t blame Cal for that though, Hopkins was making it a no contact sport because I think he knew if he opened up Cal would’ve ripped his engine out of his chest lol. Bhop played it smart and Joe got hypnotised a bit, but was just doing enough to win. When I watched it in slow motion I thought Bhop stole the rounds shaking Joe up with some nice counters and won on damage.