Sugar Ray Robinson vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

I meant it’s one of the most talked about fantasy matchups, not one of the most widely recognised 50/50 matchups.
Most pick Robinson, but it’s the 2 greatest Welterweights of all time, so it still gets talked about.

 

I believe that the difference in ability between Robinson and Leonard is often overstated. Robinson had more power, was a better combination puncher, could things up better, was more dangerous on the inside and was a better finisher by a smidge. Leonard had the faster hands and feet, was more technically sound on the inside (in a nuts and bolts sense) and imo showed better stamina in some of his more action packed fights compared to Robinson. Other attributes like Ring IQ, defence and chin are too close to call.

That said, despite the even attributes, this might be a bad matchup for Leonard. The primary thing that made Robinson a phenom was his offensive ability. I'm not confident in Leonard managing to come back victorious from the punishment he will receive. Duran may have been superior and more tiring on the inside, Hearns may have had more one shot power and similar speed while being more lengthy, but they just did not put the hurt on guys like Robinson did.

Robinson would hit someone with fully leveraged double left hooks off a clinch, would snap rib shots while utilising a colar tie and could throw full power 8 punch combinations in 2 seconds, all while pivoting to create new angles and openings. If he missed, he could set you up to avoid shots in a certain way to create other openings, or would just forearm you towards a punch's trajectory. He was nothing short of a wild animal when he was hellbent on hurting someone. Leonard is much too talented not to have his moments, and has been proven to have incredible tide turning ability. But he would get hit with something painful soon enough, something that will stop him in his tracks, just like against Duran and Hearns. And in this case, I don't think he could stop what would come after.

 

Where would you put Barney Ross in that mix?

 

As of the time of this post, the poll on this thread is 81% in SRR's favour.

 

Up there, but behind those 2 and maybe Gavilán and Armstrong, I’d have him in the top 7 at least in terms of achievements at Welterweight.

 

I went with Robinson by decision. That sort of speed and workrate was insane. I’ll give Leonard the benefit of the doubt that he sees the final bell though

 

In terms of fights contested tested solely at WW, I have SRR, SRL, Napoles, Armstrong, Britton, Griffiths and Gavilan as a top 7 and clearly ahead of Ross, who doesn't make my top 10 at the weight.

P4P based on fights at all weights, of those 7, I only have SRR and Armstrong above Ross.

 

I feel he’s on the same level as a Griffiths or Britton, with the judgement coming down to individual opinion, which I’m not personally sure.

 

Robinson hit harder, took an even better shot and matched him on speed and stamina ... a super competitive fight with Robinson probably taking a close decision .... I will say Leonard would have been the best man he ever fought.

 

P4P based on fights at all weights Ross is above both, imo.

In contests at WW (allowing a few lbs over for non-titlw fights) Ross went 21-2, including 4-2 in world title fights. He beat McLarnin (2-1) including an SD, Cerfino Garcia x 3, Billy Petrolle, Chuck Woods x 2 and Izzy Jannazzo.

Britton went around 131-30-22, including 18-7-6 in title fights, he beat TKL (10-7-2), Benny Leonard (1-1 at WW), Soldier Bartfield (5-2-1), Johnny Griffiths (5-1-2), Mike Glover, Lockport Jimmy Duffy x 3, Willie Brennan, Mike O'Dowd, Charley White, Steve Latzo x 2 and Bryan Downey.

Emile Griffiths was 37-4 at WW, including 10-3 in world title fights. He beat LMR (3-1), Benny Paret (2-1), Gaspar Ortega x 2, Jorge Fernandez x 3, Florentino Fernandez, Denny Moyer, Willie Toweel, Brian Curvis, Ralph Dupas x 2, Dave Charnley and Jose Stable.

Both Britton and Griffiths had substantially deeper win resumes and more wins in world title fights at WW than Ross, which is why they typically rank higher at WW than Ross, despite Ross being the greater fighter based on fights at all weights.

 

That’s why I added, ‘generally.’ To allow for broader opinions than just one board.

 

It’ll be close and Leonard won’t look bad trying, it’s just that though ”trying” on his best night Robinson just does nearly everything better, Robinsons bigger, stronger, tougher more powerful and just as fast.
That’s my 0.2$ but I think it’s possible in the real world Leonard could win a few fights from Robinson as he’s one of the best and at times Robinson for different reasons lost to guys who weren’t, so it’s always a possibility Leonard gets him in a fictional time line with less forum magic. Leonard would be right beside the Murderers Row back then (and a better albeit poorer fighter for it) if Robinson caught the public’s awe first.

 

Two Taurus going at it. So neither takes a backward step.. offense flowing, like a song. Robinson campaigned at middleweight, Leonard did not- showing how much stronger Robinson was.

Robinson decision over Leonard

 

Liked your post for this specific point. In forum world, Duran never quits in his rematch with Leonard, Robinson never loses to Randolph Turpin and Tyson isn’t knocked out by Douglas.

The beauty of boxing is that it isn’t as predictable as these fantasy threads would make it appear and it’s only ever a best guess. Leonard definitely could beat Robinson in real life, he just might not be the favourite to do it.

 

Timing is everything even before they get in the ring…