Bivol clearly won after rewatching

What is most shocking to me are people around the world calling Arthur's punches more damaging even hitting gloves..

Landing on the arms and the gloves are not scoring blows and you're also not Bivol so who are we to actually act like we know how much Bivol was hurt?

 

Maybe, just maybe, the reason Bivol didn't throw very much in rounds 10 and 11 was that those punches did damage, and his stamina and especially his arms were heavy and he simply couldn't match Arturs output?

 

Yeah but as you see, it's clearly stated that Aggression, has to be Effective Aggresson, aka Being aggressive gives the impression of dominance, but unless the boxer is landing shots and not constantly getting countered, it isn't really 'effective'. Judges look for effective aggression, where the aggressor consistently lands punches and avoids those from his opponent.

Which is something you completely ignore. I would agree that Beterbiev won some of the rounds purely being aggressive and some of it was Effective, but for the majority of the fight his aggresson was anything but Effective.

And when we are talking about the biggest puncher in prolly all in Boxing, when he didn't clearly HURT Bivol or had him on wobbly legs even once, let alone a KD, you cannot say that his Aggresson as a whole was Effective.

Again fight is scored primary on who landing more clean and hard punches. When that criteria is even, the rest come to mind.

But again while Beterbiev has success with his aggresson, for majority of the Rounds, that wasn't effective Aggresson, as he was countered, nothing was landing flush/clean(with exception as i already mention), and Bivol was catching majority of Beterbiev Shots on his glove.
Also while Bivol was moving a lot, which was his strategy, he was almost never been on the ropes, which again nullify the idea that Beterbiev aggression was effective.

 

He wasn't hurt at all, as if he, Beterbiev would have capitalize on it.

 

Or maybe he knew he was heavily infront, as he should have been, and didn't want to risk getting KO by silly mistake? Maybe pacing himself ?
And Bivol clearly won the 12 round, so that fight is Robbery of it's highest order.

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AI clearly shows, just as what my eyes shows on the first watch and on rewind that Bivol 100% won the 12th. round CLEARLY.

 

Please don't put words in my mouth or take anything out of context - I ignore nothing. I scored the rounds to Beterbiev where I felt is aggresion WAS effective (4-6, 10-12) - sure, many punches were being blocked, but Arturs workrate was keeping Dmitry passive in those rounds, and he was scoring decent bodywork as well, which were scoring shots.

Additonally, sure Bivol did not get dropped or really look in trouble, but round 11 especially was bad from an optics point of view as he was just shelling up and not returning anything - my recollection midway through round 11 was that Artur might even force the stoppage purely because Dmitry's output had all but evaporated. He came back better in round 12, but I feel the damage to the perception of the judges had been done by that point.

All based on my personal subjective take on the fight which I have not rewatched, and have repeatedly stated I wasn't 100% focussed on scoring, as I was enjoying the flow of the fight far too much.

Will I see things different on a rewatch? Maybe, but it's rare that changes too much and I expect to stay at draw or 115-113 either way.

NB - This is all just my honest take, I don't expect everyone to see it the same way - that's the beauty of things; it would be a hella boring world if everyone just agreed all the time!

 

You do know that AI isn't infallible either, it can hallucinate, and it can be tuned etc.

I will always trust my own senses as opposed to stats - but that said, in this case the AI does look accurate to my viewing of the fight, but it still doesn't clearly show a victor IMO

 

Bivol did NOT CLEARLY win round 12, it was v close - and possibly fittingly, the whole fight writ large; Bivol scoring cleaner shots, but spoardic output, with Artur pressing more, having more blocked but holding center of the ring and looking like he wanted it more.

And from a purely neutral POV, Bivol could have done with Arturs corner in round 11 & 12 to wake him up and get him working and getting back to his jab 1/2 to try and disrupt Beterbiev, which he failed to do in 10 & 11, giving Beterbiev a lot of momentum closing the fight.

All 3 judges had the last 3 rounds for Beterbiev, as did I, and I know there are many others in the same boat.

 

Yeah i'm C++ and Java Developer myself, and have experience with AI as well, and every program can be done to favor the X or Y guy, no doubt about that.
But DeepStrike and AI still in the beginning of it's work i doubt they will modify it to favor anyone, as it also a third party program that they essentially have contract to score/collect data/stats for the fights.
A lot of athlete use similar systems to see their performance. I know for sure in Tennis as players pay big money for 3rd party programs to collect data for all of their data, either training or official match.

And if i fair i think AI here gives the benefit of the doubt to Beterbiev in terms of overall punches landed. As their system can measure the impact of a punch.
Have in mind that they were provided 360 view cameras for this and the Usyk - Fury fight, so the accuracy of their stats is close to 100%.

 

Round 12 i disagree. Rewatch it. Clear Bivol round.

 

I agree not a great fight it had tension down the stretch but it was more like a high speed tactical chess match that never really caught fire.

Honestly even though I scored it a draw and have no problem with Beterbiev getting the nod. I didn't feel like Beterbiev was as assertive nor was his punches as effective as I'm used to seeing.

 

Bivol wasn't his usual self either. I guess this is what happens when you're fighting the best available opponent and possible ATG.

 

4 or 5 out of 12 rounds isn't actually damaging enough to win the required 7 rounds to win the fight, though. This is all my opinion, and I don't really care.

 

I had it 8-4 Bivol, I had him up 8-2 after 10, and he gave up the last two rounds, but a lot of the rounds were incredibly close, the 8-2 does not reflect the fight which I thought was a very high level chess match. As close as most of the rounds were, I can't help feeling the wrong man got the win, Bivol boxed out of his skin for the majority of that fight

 

I just rewatched the fight and this is how I had it:

1 - Bivol
2 - Bivol
3 - Bivol
4 - Beterbiev (swing)
5 - Beterbiev
6 - Beterbiev
7 - Bivol (swing)
8 - Bivol (swing)
9 - Bivol
10 - Bivol
11 - Beterbiev
12 - Beterbiev (swing)

7 - 5 Bivol.
I had four swing rounds, two apiece. If I'd given Beterbiev all swing rounds it would be 7 - 5 Beterbiev, so I don't exactly have a problem with Beterbiev winning, draw would've been more fair though, but then again if I gave Bivol all swing rounds it would've been 9 - 3 Bivol.

I agree with OP in his argument above with the guy with the trippy profile pic: in a fight where no one was knocked out, knocked down, or visibly wobbled, it really doesn't matter if one fighter has a reputation for punching and the other doesn't, all that matters is who landed the clean, effective punching, and who landed more, and that was basically always Bivol. Beterbiev might've hurt Bivol by punching his gloves but when it comes to scoring that doesn't matter at all.

Bivol clearly won the first three rounds. 4 - 6 were Beterbiev by activity alone, although Bivol still had the best single punches in those rounds, Bivol had a second wind 7 - 10 although some were close. I've seen a lot of people say 10 was a clear Beterbiev round. I see literally no way to give round 10 to Beterbiev. Bivol landed the cleaner, better punches. 11 was a definite Beterbiev round, 12 I gave to Beterbiev but again Bivol landed the better punches. People saying Bivol was running or was 'just surviving' need to rewatch. He was always firing back.