Sugar Ray Robinson vs King Carlos Monzon (160lbs 15 rounds)

Vague.

 

Well, wouldn't you prefer to learn the opinion from a boxing fan rather than your 5 year old daughter, Sir?

 

Okay mate

 

Monzon was very subtle, that’s why he was able to not look so good on the eye, but he very effective nonetheless, he wasn’t fast, look stiff and basic, but had a very versatile jab, changed the speed of it and had great timing with it, and had great judgement of distance, and was great at knowing where he was at all times, and knew how to use his advantages, not take too many risks, jab and was great at seeing when the opponents would commit and pulling back at the right time.
The problem is, his style was adapted to fighting shorter men in height and being able to outjab opponents and keep it at range and see punches coming upwards, he couldn’t outbox Robinson from the outside, Robinson had more tools, could lead hook better off of the jab, could feint low and level change better, was much quicker, he’d take away Monzon’s jab with feints, level changes and would use his own lead hand combined with level changes and feints with the feet to draw Monzon in just that little bit too much to set up counter rights and lead lefts, which would land with him having very quick feet and Monzon being stiff.
Robinson in a competitive decision.

 

Ray was not only much faster but he was also the bigger puncher. Carlos was tough, very strong, took an amazing shot but I see him vulnerable to the speed . Keepin mind Robinson had an all time chin, never KO’ed (heat exhaustion aside) in twenty five years.

 

Robinson lost the Middleweight title 3 times. He retired with it in '52 and I think was stripped after the 2nd Basilio bout.

 

John touched on this earlier in the thread but there were two Robinsons at Middleweight. After his dancing career failed he cameback. He didn't have that mobility on a consistent basis. He could still flash it in spurts which was good enough for a few years. He always had power.
Before retirement when he started to outgrow Welterweight around 1949-1952 he was pretty sensational. This is the version of Robinson at 160 that I would slightly favor over Monzon.

For Monzon I would say he didn't have a flashy style. Perhaps he wasn't a sensational performer but nobody can say he wasn't effective. Sometimes we overrate the sensational performer who looks dazzling in victory. We sell the understated guy short often. times. I think Carlos probably took that kind of thinking to the bank.

 

That poll is nuts. Has to be some kind of a record to be so close after more than sixty votes.

 

It's a matchup fans have debated for decades.

 

Whilst Robinson does have similar physical tools to Monzon, you have to keep in mind the mentality. Ray was naturally a very aggressive fighter. This bout would not be different. Ray would consistently try to make the fight here for the entire 15 and would have to be forcibly dissuaded. Stylistically, it might not be entirely dissimilar to the Napoles bout - the difference being that SRR could afford to back off at points to center ring and switch up to more 'negative' jab exchanges as needed, although I wouldn't favour him to win them. Napoles had great success at the start by being ultra aggressive and drawing counters. I think Rays best shot early would be his left hook and his right to the body.

The problem is the strength of Monzons ring generalship. There is absolutely no way SRR is avoiding Monzon's uppercuts and right hands forever, and SRR's stylistic weakness, his lack of systematic head movement (for an elite level fighter), could very well be the knock against him here. Both men employed leaning back as a defense, and both could exploit it, but given his eerily cool head and generalship I see Monzon employing it better, especially down the stretch. Also, Monzon was quite underrated in terms of the clinch and his strength. I can also see Monzon employing that strategically to wear SRR down as the bout goes on.

I think Monzon wins, in a margin so very close that it would be constantly debated (like the recent Bivol - Beterbiev bout).

 

With my vote, it's 31 - 31 - 2

 

I picked Monzon as well. Great post above.

 

That's true, Homicide but what year did he begin to slide? And how would you compare Monzon to Randy Turpin.

 

Sorry for the late response. I think 1951-52 would be the time he started to slide. The loss against Turpin was mostly due to a lack of focus.
I would give Turpin the edge over Monzon in a head to head fight.

 

So after entering a long decline, Sugar Ray fought 66 times over a period of 14 years, nearly winning the light heavyweight crown, beating Bobo Olson, Rocky Castellani, Carmen Basilio and knocking out Rocky Graziano and Gene Fullmer while regaining the middleweight title three times.