Who won: Artur Beterbiev or Dmitry Bivol

Live I had it close for Bivol by a round or two. I plan on going back and scoring round by round.

 

So was his corner.

 

That's not objective. That's still subjective. Like I said people see what people see, they interpret it how they interpret it, it's subjective.

Even beyond that, remove the emotion again, you're asking me to tell you how Beterbiev won certain rounds, how can I do that if I didn't subjectively score those rounds in the first place?

You have to remember, rounds are judged. There's no objective tally. You watch 3 minutes of a fight, you make a subjective judgement.

Don't worry too much about it man.

 

youre missing a lot of things in your assessments of these situations and of reality itself. first off, and the most obvious, is that this is a boxing forum, where all boxing related topics are discussed. this happened this week and was a huge historically significant fight, whose results are being hotly debated. in addition, im not saying im right, im saying how i scored the fight, matches what was recorded on video closer than those who had biev winning. i have my score and the video is easily available, even on this site. i invite everyone to challenge my version with the video itself. then do the same with your version.
if you are happy with how everything went and you dont want to keep scratching at the scab, i get it. my posts were not meant for you. i appreciate your concerns for my emotions, but i assure i am fine. quite content actually.

 

And therein lies your problem. What you scored only matches your interpretation of the video closer than those who had Beterbiev winning.

Same as what they scored only matches their interpretation of the video closer than those who had Bivol winning.

Subjective.

 

i am aware. im also aware that the neutral observers will be able to clearly see which version is less polluted by subjective nonsense. making it clear who understands scoring, and who does not. because after all, understanding, and scoring correctly, is what insures a fair verdict.

 

Have to disagree with that - reality is interpreted by whoever experiences it.

It's all in the eye of the beholder IMO

 

Cope

 

Cope? Nice intelligent discourse there my friend.

And regarding Bivol / Beterbiev I'm about as neutral as they come as I have a huge amount of time for both fighters, and was only rooting for a great fight, which I got.

Before the fight, the BIG questions I wanted answered were as follows:-

• Could Bivol execute his usual gameplan to control the distance and tempo of the fight as long as possible and nullify Arturs offense, and can he elevate his game to a higher level and have more gears?
• Would Beterbiev avoid getting frustrated if Bivol proved elsusive and make mistakes, or would he be able to impose his will and style to close the gap and make Bivol uncomfortable?

The answer to both questions, was YES and NO in different spells of the fight, and again this made it very hard to score.

I had a it a draw, and as noted on other threads, whilst I felt bad for Bivol given his excellent defnce and counter punching during his spells of success (1-3, 7-9), I'd also have felt bad for Artur, who imposed his style and workrate on an increasingly passive Bivol in the championship rounds, if Bivol had been given the nod.

Both guys put nearly all they could into the fight, and both had successes and failures that were a result of their own skills AND the guy opposite them, which makes it such a hard and subjective fight to score.

Both fighters showed my facets to their game that I hadn't seen before, and both showed some potential mistakes / improvements & adjustments they could make in the return.

Same summary and hasn't changed on rewatch

My score - 114-114, and I'd see 115-113 to either guy being acceptable, though on the whole I feel like a draw was the fairest score.

 

I watched the match again yesterday.

Bivol: 1, 2, 3, 8, 9
Beterbiev: 5, 6, 10, 11, 12
Draw: 4, 7

115 - 115 Draw

 

That's pretty fair to me too - I gave Beterbiev 4 and Bivol 7, but arguably even is more accurate on those rounds. I just try and avoid 10-10 rounds but maybe need to consider using them more.

I think that the prevailing wisdom that 'sitting on the fence' on a round and just accepting that neighter fighter did enough to win it would probably lead to fair less outlier and 'robbery' scorecards.

When one is forced to make an arbitrary decision it's at best a flip of a coin, and at worst bias and personal preferences creep in

 

Now we're unpicking your issue deeper, I like this.

Subjectivity is not pollution, it's to be embraced. The neutral observer is free to watch a round and make their own judgement.

 

of course, anyone can be incompetent. but an incompetent judgement is worthless when someone more competent does it better. this is how one can judge incompetence. if a wild swing on tape looks like a score to you, you suck. and anyone can look at the video and tell that you suck. i posted my views on the video, because im not afraid of being found to suck. i trust my judgement. if someone is afraid to do the same, it doesnt take a genius to understand why. i know this doesnt include you, youre just too cool to waste your time on something like that. but for the rest of us squares, this is how we can tell whats what.

 

Again mate, remove the emotion.

I've already explained my score and why I scoured rounds how I did. You've already explained your score and why you scored rounds how you did. So actually that makes us both cool squares, or at the least refrigerated quadrilaterals.

The fight is there for all to see, in all it's subjective glory.

 

so what is it that youre arguing? that your assessments are equal to mine? cause they arent.