Prime George Foreman vs Prime Larry Holmes

My head is telling me Holmes but my gut is telling me Foreman ... let me think a bit on how to get there.

The deeper Larry takes him, the better his chances are ... but can peak Larry stick and move that long, which he would have to do, without getting cornered or in trouble? I don't think Larry had it in him to adjust on the fly like Ali and pull the "rope a dope" out of his rectum.

If it's one fight I'm betting on George, if it's a trilogy nobody is going to bat 1.000.

 

I think Larry could survive George's early onslaught with his tremendous jab and overall ring savvy. Once the fight gets into the middle rounds I can see Holmes slowly wearing Foreman down bit by bit. Ultimately I'll go with a Holmes victory by UD or late stoppage.

 

I think even a 90's version of this matchup would have been interesting.
Very very intriguing.

 

No better remedy for looping punches than a nice cold jab right on the chin, again and again.
Holmes cuts Foreman down around the 7th-12th or wins a decision.
Foreman earns his punchers chance but Holmes is too slick for him.

 

But Holmes could fight effectively out of corners, see Weaver and Berbick (Weaver had Tyson-level strength).

Even if we specifically abstract the 1978 Larry who artistically dismantled a raging Earnie, even that early Holmes would have escaped the corners. Check his speed in that fight.

Cool post btw

 

Holmes, Foreman struggled big time with guys like that.

 

Holmes UD

 

This isn’t a foregone conclusion, and I think this is one of the most 50/50 fights there is, Holmes wasn’t as nimble as even Zaire Ali, he got rocked and badly hurt against Witherspoon, down against Snpies, he could be set up for the right hand, when opponents would throw some left jabs and rights to the body, he’d often forget the range of his opponents right after a while and get lazy in that regard.
Foreman did rock Jimmy Young and nearly stopped him in one of the rounds, I’d say he was better defensively than Holmes and Holmes being more offensive than Young also may give Foreman more opportunities to find ways to set up the right based on Holmes’ mistakes, if it goes the distance, Holmes probably takes it down the stretch, but he could easily get caught.
Although I may add that Holmes always recovered well as long as long as he didn’t get knocked out and also was great at surviving/not having combinations landed on him when he switched on by using his arms to keep them at bay and pulling back, clinching etc.

 

72-74 Foreman 6'3 1/2, 79' reach, 221 lbs (Brawler) vs 78-82 Holmes 6'3, 81' reach, 215 lbs (Slickster).

Power Foreman
Hand speed Holmes
Chin Foreman
Footwork Holmes
Accuracy Holmes
Timing Foreman
Offense Foreman
Defense Holmes
Versatility Holmes
Combinations Foreman
Ring IQ Holmes
Heart Even

6-1-5 slight edge to Holmes

I don't think either guy just coasts to some sort of clear win. I think both win some rounds, lose some rounds, both get hurt and struggle many times. They each bring something to the table the other doesn't have despite being similar height and weight, and that's what makes it such a close fight on paper and an interesting clash of styles. The matchup is all about control of the pace and range.


If it's set for 12 with a smaller 16 ft ring:

I envision Foreman to take full advantage of that to stalk and walk Holmes down whenever he can. Foreman would thump away with his heavy jab, go to the body, and try to time Holmes with his looping bombs. Holmes would need to clock into overtime to keep the big Texan off of him every minute of every round slashing away with his whip like jab, shifty footwork, and right hand leads. Holmes' weakness to big overhand rights is worrying, as is his lack of power to really keep Foreman off in a smaller ring.

My guess is we either end up with Foreman simply being too much for Holmes and knocks him down once or twice, but then starts to tire in the later rounds and Holmes gains a resurgence to box his head off. The final two rounds is a furious war with both men tired and hurt. Gun to my head, smaller ring with 12 rounds, Foreman either takes a close decision winning 6 rounds, 1 even, 5 to Holmes, or he manages to TKO Holmes at some time by the 6-7th if Foreman really gets aggressive and applies his suffocating pressure with body shots and his big right hand that Holmes always hates. Holmes would get up once or twice, but third time's the charm. Unlike Shavers, Witherspoon, and Snipes, Foreman had devastating power with every punch in either hand and was a devastating finisher.

Verdict: Foreman close decision or mid/late round TKO.


If it's for 15 rounds in a 24 ft ring:

I see Holmes' boxing brain, slight reach edge, speed, and better pacing making a huge difference. From round 1 onwards, Holmes probably doesn't even attempt to mix things up and is constantly in motion. If he gets rocked or cornered, oh well, lose that round but SURVIVE. Clinch, push, cover up and hide behind a high guard, just DO NOT get into a brawl whatsoever. Foreman may manage to clip Holmes and drop him at some point, but Holmes has enough fortitude to gather his bearings and survive, he's done his road work and watched the tapes. I think as long as Holmes can force Foreman to actually earn every punch and frustrate him enough to make him think or hesitate, that will drain the big man's stamina in the long run.

By round 9, if Holmes can keep this up being responsible on defense and spams his jab targeting Foreman's eye, he will eventually start to take the lead on the cards and Foreman will have vision problems. Now the Easton assassin can finally slow down a bit and boxes at mid range with a more pedestrian but effective 1-2, jab, 1-2, move, block, jab, flurry, clinch or block if things get crazy plan. It isn't pretty and the crowd will get annoyed, but again who cares Holmes is winning the fight 6 rounds to 3. By round 10, Foreman is walking like he has cement in his shoes, gasping for air, and his punches have hardly any steam on them. Holmes rocks him hard with several big right hands and a furious flurry, dropping the Texan. Foreman is up at 6 and gives one last rally digging away with big heavy shots to the ribs and lands an uppercut, dropping Holmes with the last of his strength. Holmes also gets up in a daze, bell rings. That was Foreman's last chance. Round 13, Holmes plays it safe covering up, jabbing, and tying Foreman up whose red shorts are drenched in his own sweat. A pawing jab followed by a desperate wild left hook haye maker from Foreman is easily dodged and countered by Holmes' 2-1-2 combo, dropping Foreman again. Foreman crashes like a falling refrigerator and is barely up at 8 with both eyes basically shut as if someone taped them closed--stumbling about, and breathing hard out his mouth. The ref has seen enough.

Verdict Holmes TKO round 13.



I think in either scenario, there's a possibility it goes the other way in a rematch. This would be a very close matchup. In a trilogy, I'd say Holmes wins 2/3 as he's better at making adjustments so I'll give him the vote in the poll.

 

I agree. Shavers was probably the hardest puncher of all time, but he was so inaccurate and sloppy. Holmes' really shouldn't have been in a position to get hit like that in the first place. Foreman while likely inferior in terms of power, is superior to Shavers in every other asset.

 

Completely agree - though I would be inclined to give Holmes a free pass, more or less, given it was one moment in over twenty rounds against Shavers. I wouldn’t even give Shavers a power advantage over Foreman if we’re looking at their distribution across both hands, & they were in different galaxies as finishers, needless to say.

I see a lot of talk (generally) about Holmes having great recuperative powers & always recovering, but to me, this is as disingenuous as saying he was annihilated against Tyson (the only first-class finisher who could punch he ever faced), & so couldn’t survive any of the great offensive fighters. Holmes was washed up & taking the fight on short notice - that would be an unfair critique. & equally, he, “showed great recovery,” against Shavers, Weaver & Snipes. Not giving him points for that if it’s going to be used to extrapolate how he’d recover against someone like Foreman.

 

Foreman and Holmes were born the same year yet Holmes was making his pro debut when Foreman was the champion.

 

I don’t know what the circumstances of that were off-hand but it’s always annoyed me. By rights, Holmes should have been in the mix a lot sooner, & we’d have more conclusive answers about how great he was or wasn’t as a result if he had begun at a more reasonable age. I bet he wishes he had in retrospect - he is delusional enough to believe he’d have taken Ali, Frazier & Foreman in one night. As it was, Holmes started late & Foreman left early. A real shame.

 

Also Jimmy Young was a year older than them and turned pro the same year as Foreman. Young didn't age well because he was going the distance most of his fights. Thats the 2 greatest HWs of his generation out of the way when he first hit the scene.

I'm not with you all the way on Holmes but I do think if he entered the picture at the same time as Foreman he'd be like 5th until Foreman, Ali, Norton, Frazier, Young and Lyle started leaving, getting old etc. If Foreman still leaves he'd have his reign but he wouldn't be undefeated and would be viewed more as a leftover of the previous era.

Given Holmes career trajectory you'd think he was born in 1953.

 

I'd go for Holmes UD, wouldn't bet big on it though.