Another Fighter That Beats Foreman (Zaire)?

He knocks Tua out.

 

Then he benchpresses a few cattle and heads off to Isengard for a couple of beers

 

If Tua does win, it’d be his second win over a ranked opponent.

His ranking here on this forum, far surpasses anything he actually accomplished in real life.

 

I'll add this to your great take on this. And this is how seriously flawed most of the opinions on the subject are.
How many of these fighters from Larry Holmes ( A Atg ) to Ross Purity ( please. )
Had the ability to get under Foreman's skin the way Ali did? Be real everyone, Ali beat Foreman well before they got in the ring in Zaire that night.
The fight in Kinshasa probably is the worse Foreman looked the entirety of his great career.
It was the mind games that actually beat him. Also as you noted Ali's underestimated physicality, his ability to wrestle with Foreman, turn him, push him away or smother him when needed.
99% percent of the fighters mentioned on this post couldn't do that against Foreman.
As one great trainer once said ( Can't remember which one) Boxing is 95% percent mental. Ali took away 95% of Foreman's boxing abilities.
The 5% left was easy for Ali to deal with.
But just because Ali was able to do that doesn't mean any boxer ( Ross Purity,,,, for God's sake) could do that.....
After all, there's only ONE!!! Ali.
Before some of you jump on the Jimmy Young bandwagon. Foreman was in a mental crisis since his loss to Ali. His management team knew it. ( The five fights in one night is proof of this) they were trying to build him back up..
Young had the best night of his career , but he beat a clearly broken version of Foreman. What he ( Foreman) did after the fight, ( the spiritual epiphany in the locker room ,not fighting for 10 yrs after ) were clear signs of this fact.
In my opinion if Young fought Foreman before he fought Ali. Or after his come back, He'd be annihilated.
Those version of Foreman fought with a purpose, and a plan. Not just going out and winging hard punches just to prove a point.

 

Foreman's best wins were over chinny, usually smaller guys that would stand in front of him and exchange bombs. Tua switches this narrative up a little in that he had a top shelf chin at heavyweight and better stamina than Foreman. Foreman might outbox him I guess. Or he might gas horribly and get stopped. I'd watch this.

 

Maybe the Lewis who beat Rahman II.

Joe Louis would have stopped him earlier.

Larry Holmes would have stopped him in 9 at the latest.

Liston would have outpointed him.

60s Ali would have won a lopsided decision where George would have suffered at least one knockdown.

FOTC Frazier stops him in 8.

 

H2H debaters be like:

"Frazier was a one armed bandit. Too short, short arms, too limited. Sure he has a great resume in a stacked era, had good stamina, and a good hook, but not much else. He'd struggle vs any modern sized elite, I mean look how easily he lost to Foreman".

"Tua??? OMG, Tua was an absolute MONSTER. He had such a strong left hook. Sure he was short with short arms, but he knew how to get inside. Resume? Psh, his resume wasn't that great because he ran into so many elite guys in a stacked era. He threw a REALLY good hook, was tough, had great stamina, did i mention he had a great hook?!?"

 

The Joe Louis who fought Baer and Carnera. The Evander Holyfield from the 2nd Bowe fight. Possibly Lennox Lewis if he was careful.

 

I honestly think Usyk dominates foreman

 

Foreman is a bit tricky. If you think Ali exposed him and he would have had the same struggles against Lyle and Young even if he met them pre Ali, it seems reasonable that quite a few could replicate what Ali and Young did and improve on Lyle enough to win.

If you think he had the misfortune to run into his kryptonite in Ali and never was the same afterwards it will be different, though.

Personally, a bit of both seems reasonable I think, but very hard to say in what proportions.

 

He had never even completed 12 rounds before Ali. It’s that he couldn’t pace himself, especially in hot weather.

 

I don’t know if he dominates him but Usyk certainly gives George nightmares.

I am going off the assumption that George can’t land enough big shots to stop Usyk and doesn’t catch him flush as he did with many of his opponents. Usyk may, just may be too cagey for George and walk him into some traps.

That said, George could catch him and end it quickly. But he could do that to anybody.

Usyk and Lewis are good shouts, but I’m not as convinced that Holmes beats George. Holyfield 50/50 for mine against premium Foreman.

 

Had nothing to do with the fact he ended nearly every fight within five, hey?

 

There's not many for me.

Joe Louis was devastating against bigger lumbering guys but Foreman is levels above those he beat. Having said that Joe's brilliant counter punching, precise, fast, brutal and often delivered as a blistering combination would be extremely dangerous. Foreman would need to control Joe's positioning and manhandle him a bit, bully him, be aggressive. It's an open fight. Either Foreman's force and power is too much much or Joe's slashing fists are.

Sonny Liston has a chance of getting inside George's punches with his tighter more compact shots as I've been saying forever. I could see him slipping and attacking at mid range. Liston was superb defensively and a fine counter puncher. He could also go back a gear and bide his time and has great fundamentals. Liston has a solid chance.

Lennox Lewis is a decent show as well. The blueprint would be to get in early like Ali did and get some booming right crosses in to establish some respect. Lewis would be the hardest puncher George ever faced, for mine and he's a huge man with an extremely good jab. He's a chance here.

They'd be the three guys I'd feel best about. Holmes could be awkward but i don't think he'd survive personally. With a top shelf ref Wlad wouldn't be able to octopus enough. Vitali would wear down in the first five for mine etc

 

Frazier being "chinny" is absurd and off the mark. You simply can't be a pressure fighter, and have any success let alone become champ, with a poor chin.

Tua never took the punches Foreman laid out on Frazier. He met ONE puncher arguably of that caliber, **** himself, and went into a shell the remainder of the fight, winning a total of 3 rounds across 3 scorecards. He was also knocked flat on his ass by Rahman.

Yup all you need is a top chin and stamina, to beat Foreman.

That's why George Chuvalo, widely regarded as being the most durable fighter of all time, or top 3 at worst (and unlike Tua, wasn't significantly hurt by a body shot from a featherfirst) did so well against Foreman. Oh wait.