Another Fighter That Beats Foreman (Zaire)?

I’m not sure what that means? I digress James Toney looking like an overstuffed bean bag wasn’t stopped by guys bigger and stronger then Foreman.
Whilst he could still move early on in his HW adventure (you could use the 190lbs version where he was about 200+ in the ring) he would be hell, even old and way too heavy he’d be there all night and the big fella would probably topple himself over, on the inside this wouldn’t be a close fight at all IMO.

 

I thought you were joking about Toney hanging with Foreman, so I made a joke about the 2001 film, Ali, in which Toney played the role of Frazier, getting massacred by Foreman.

 

@Pat M now that I think about it I’ve never got your thoughts on one of my least most popular opinions lol. Early HW - Cruiser Toney likely stops 70s George Foreman.

 

Hanging? You mean stopping - man it’s been a long time since I saw that film I didn’t even notice it was Toney till after.

 

Maybe you mean stopping. I mean dying

 

Nah Foreman topples over or gets stopped… you don’t beat James Toney by throwing wide shots, hips squared up - when you stand like Toney and get your shoulder into a guys chest you can take uppercuts and rights out of the game…Without any of that Foreman only knew how to bang the sides, tire himself out wrestling around or throwing arm punches, Toney only needs to look at Foreman’s left hook - he’d just keep getting the right inside something that wide and again with GF’s hips so square that right uppercut of Toney’s would find itself. At close quarters GF’s got nothing to offer which is weird for a guy who is so aggressive? Gil I think might’ve been onto something later on they just needed time, he’d be better off using his jab but he never did as much as it’s repeated here, he’d be like all the big HWs that saw Toney he’d wad forward right into his game because he’s a self confessed dope who only knew how to fight one way.

 

**** I messed up the quotes.

We were comparing Tua's durability to Frazier not Foreman. Not sure why you and Cojimar can't follow a simple discussion.

Patterson was not "chinny af", or he wouldn't have made it anywhere near as far as he did, and would've been swept by Ingo in the trilogy.

Cummings was a very hard puncher, who Bruno ranked over Tyson in terms of power. Although he wasn't very good otherwise which is why he failed to KO a shot Frazier. This is why I stated power is certainly not the most important asset in terms of producing a KO. You can have all the power in the world but if you're unable to put it to use against world-class opposition it means very little. @Cojimar 1946 take notes.

That was his 12th fight ffs. You're grasping at straws here. Remind me of the success Bonavena had on a more experienced Frazier in the rematch.

No I didn't actually.
"Foreman couldn't even KO Levi Forte which proves he didn't have the power to hurt Tua of all people." Does this exemplary piece of trolling ring a bell?

He was dropped four times in the 70s. Two of those were from complete exhaustions. The other two were when he was rusty, coming off a year and a half lay off, unconfident, and changed his style.

The reason he may have looked better in terms of durability is because he'd learned to pace himself much better, had a better defense and wasn't doing that dehydration non-sense.

You caught me. Anyone who thinks a top 10 ATG would beat someone who has all of one win over a ranked contender is only guilty of being a fanboy.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Toney stopped him. 70s Foreman tired and got weaker and wilder each round. As you mentioned, pre-Clancy GF liked to stand square and wing punches, doubtful those punches would land on a good defensive fighter like JT. Toney would be hard for GF to hit and the punches he'd throw back at GF would get respect. I think 70s GF looked much better when trained by Gil Clancy, and the improvement is why he lasted the distance with Jimmy Young.

A lot of people think that 70s GF was just a younger, faster 90s GF. He wasn't. They are two different fighters. Almost nothing in common.

 

Glad to see my thoughts are being accepted now. I can remember a time when posters would gossip about how I claimed Toney could stop Foreman in random threads years later.

 

I also believe Moore would beat Holyfield… you in?

 

He fought down to other fighter’s levels, so I wouldn’t say it’s off the table.

 

His strength was his aggression and ability to cut the ring (allegedly) a front runner who liked to chase guys, we saw how he looked on the inside against Lyle, Young and Ali he got tangled up, his shots were too long and he wasted a lot of energy - that’s the kind of guy Toney would love, he fed on aggression. GF might look good on the way to Toney with his jab always marching forward but once he’s there… that uppercut would just keep finding George he didn’t know how to back off - he’d be so tired that I don’t even know if he would be the stronger guy… this might be a stretch but James was a former 200lbs football player and he was on PEDs he’d probably look like the stronger man negotiating for space but it’s not really a factor anyway, James style was all about relaxing - What I liked about Gil’s training with GF was they got him standing at a range he could fight out of and he paced himself, Bob Satterfield had a career to show you how disastrous and successful it can be to kamikaze every fight, law of averages catches up.

 

I don’t think he’d ever be allowed to put himself in a good position against Foreman’s shove & throw tactics, personally. Jones sent him reeling across the ring with a single shot. He’d have to be beyond perfect here, & would be rampantly drug abusing to do it anyway.

 

In your particular case, you’d pick Bernard Hopkins to stop Foreman. Probably Ricardo Lopéz, too.

 

Pushing and shoving isn’t magic, watch the Alex Stewart fight for it being demonstrated on Foreman himself… you’re still vulnerable. Toney also smirked through plenty of heavyweight shots… plenty bigger than Foreman, Sometimes a good punch is a good punch - take Foreman being rocked by Jimmy Young a bunch of times, accuracy and timing are the important contributions to power PEDs or not they were available with no testing in the 70s and used… I don’t care if Toney, Holyfield or Butterbean were juiced up i use the versions shown on film. Once inside Foreman gasses himself getting countered to death trying to swat James like a bullet proof fly lol.