How Good Was Max Schmeling?

I dont know how he d do vs whoever in history,he was a skilled boxer but was hot and cold at times,for instance I never thought he d get beat by Baer.
But a skilled boxer nonetheless.

 

Best 30s heavyweight behind Louis, top 20 HW all time. I think the best version of Max gives anyone his own size a horrible time.

 

I think that comparisons with Douglas are entirely unwarranted.

While his win over Louis was a considerable upset, he was by no means a one hit wonder.

He has a number of very good wins on his resume, and even before the Louis fight he was highly regarded.

Sometimes the evidence catches up with a fighters clique of supporters, and this was a case in point.

 

Good enough to where anybody who gets in the ring with Max on a good night is going to know he's been in a fight even if Max doesn't prevail in the end.

 

He was also champion BEFORE he fought Louis.

 

He also arguably should’ve never even lost the title in the first place, I thought he beat Sharkey pretty comfortably in their rematch

 

He engaged in the fight of the year 4x. Which in itself is fun and impressive.
Defeated 4 hall of fame fighters 3 by Knock out. Joe Louis, Jack Sharkey, Young Stribling, Mickey Walker.
Has arguably the best win in the division’s history.

Max was the second best heavy in the division during the 30s.

If I had to knock him I would say he was slightly undersized. I don’t know how well he would past the 60s historically.

 

I'm the biggest Louis appreciator you'll find on this board, and that said must resist any urge to diminish credit for that victory by saying it was a "young Joe". Sure, he was less experienced (Max had a full decade head start on him in the pros) but he was also 24-0 and not exactly being spooned babyfood; this wasn't bum-of-the-month. He was the number one contender to Braddock, smashing his way ahead of Schmeling at #2, and was a 1/10 favorite heading in.

Writing the achievement off as beating a green fighter rings as false here as when people make that claim about Mayweather over Canelo.

It's an outstanding win, and has to be considered top five all time at heavyweight. It wasn't like he caught Louis cold with a single lucky shot in the first round or anything either - he whooped him for 11½ rounds and stopped him (up on the official judges' scorecards 7-3-1). It's all part of what makes Louis avenging the loss in the rematch such a momentous "real life is better fiction than fiction itself" type of moment. To excuse-make and downplay the loss in some attempt to buff Louis actually does him a disservice by lessening the impact of his eventual triumph.

Schmeling of '36 is a nightmare for any pre-war HW. Tokyo Douglas is a potent h2h weapon (though it has become fashionable to pretend otherwise), but more of a specialized "Mike Tyson beating" one than Bronx 1 Max was a Louis beating savant.

 

He was elite for his era with top notch victories for who was available. Good power, real good counter puncher against the level of fighter he opposed. From a modern heavyweight perspective, he was undersized, a bit stiff and robotic, left his chin out there at times, maybe not the quickest guy. I think he would have translated to any era of heavyweight up till the 70's and certainly would have done well as a cruiser. He was a real fighter at heart, too. Had some dog in him. Given the opportunity, he would have made his mark.

 

Who's the last cluster of top 3-5 heavyweights he doesn't get out-athleted and out-techniqued against?

 

Marciano-Moore-Patterson-Ingo... Not saying he would win against all these guys but he would belong there. I think he would start to be less competitive in the 1970's. I think a guy like Quarry eats him up, for example.

 

I assume the Boomer average size increase means that he's facing a bigger talent pool of athletic men?

Also, where does this leave Louis on the Great Chain of Being?

 

That’s interesting - I think he’d have touch & go with Quarry in a very competitive fight, personally.