Where do you rank sonny liston?

Because years of prison amateur fights plus AUU and Golden gloves, that's why I said Liston had longer amateur record.

 

Sonny Liston was in prison for just over 2 years.How many fights could he have had during
that time ? Not many.This plus his amateur career that lasted less than a year obivously
means he actually had less amateur experience than somebody like Henry Armstrong.

 

Just because Liston was talented enough to win the Chicago Golden Gloves with hardly any
amateur experinence doesn't mean he had significant amateur experience.Sonny Liston's outstanding
talent doesn't equate to the actual length of his career.

Marty Marshall won 27 fights and lost 14 fights.A fairly decent record.Your willingness to call a man
like Marty Marshall ''bum'' says a lot more about you than it says about Marshall.

I have very patiently,exhaustively explained to you why Cleveland Williams's injuries that he
suffered from that shooting badly affected his abilities as a fighter.This isn't specialised medical
knowledge but sheer common sense.

I recommend you read a pretty good book written about Marciano titled Unbeaten.The author is
a guy called Mike Stanton,who is very pro Marciano.In chapter 8 Stanton describes how Louis
inflicted cuts and a bloody nose on Marciano,as well as Louis bullying Marciano in the clinches.
I suppose you will now accuse Stanton of being a liar.

Marciano never faced a puncher as hard as Cleveland Williams.Given how Marciano came mighty
close to losing against such fighters as Keene Simmons ( SImmons's record was 8-8 when he
fought Marciano ) it is highly likely that Cleveland Williams would have stopped him.

Once again you bring up the Holmes vs Mercer fight to prove that fighters don't age.Once again
I need to remind you of Holmes vs Ali and Tyson vs Holmes.How about Johnson vs Willard ?

Why do you keep referring to Liston's fight with Scrap Iron Johnson ? Are you saying that
Joe Bugner is better than Joe Frazier and George Foreman ?

Please don't accuse me of lying.I'll leave the lying to you.Out of three fights between Johnson and Quarry
Johnson lasted the distance twice.

 

11-15 range

 

Then why was the bleeding so markedly different from normal eye damage
during his fight with Liston ?

 

Oh well if you want to believe Martin's manager rather than Leotis Martin himself that's
up to you.
Me ? I'll go along with what the fighter,the guy who actually suffered the injury, said.

 

You are extremely biased, my friend, and I am not surprised that other interlocutors ignore you, but I will give you a chance, counting on substantive discussions. Here are my arguments.
1. Ross Purritty and Marty Marshal were strong, highly underrated players. I agree that Ross was better overall but not by much... both were involved in testing.
2. Marshal was 19-6-2 ahead of Liston, Puritty was 24-13-1 ahead of Klitschko.
3. Liston had 7 fights before the Marty, Klitschko had... 24 before Ross, and he was an Olympic champion!
4. Liston lost SD, Klitschko lost tko
5. Liston got his revenge a year later by knocking out Marshall, Wlad never got his revenge on Ross.
In the early stages, even great boxers' defeats have no impact on their legacy. Look how many times Charlees, La Motta, Walcott, Moore, Monzon lost. Besides, what matters most is what you have achieved, not what you have lost. Sonny destroying Folley, Williams, Patterson erased the loss to Marshall

 

He got lucky that the guy to beat was Patterson, when he faced a real challenge in Ali... well, he failed, and he quit... he was skilled which I´m not sure if helps him or not, considering his career...
I definitely rank Mike Tyson above him, for example.

 

Ross was so better than Marshall, he went distance with so many greater fighters than Marshall and even menaged to get a draw with Tommy Morrison.
Ross unlike Marshall has some good wins.

So that means Vlad didn't lose his early fight against bum smaller than him which proves my point that no great Hw lost his early fight against a bum 30 pounds lighter.

24 pro fights is not early stage and 7 is, Klitchko at least lost against full size heavyweight that went distance with many great fighters unlike Liston who lost against bum 30 pounds lighter than him.

And so did Klitchko beating people like Pulev, Povetkin, Haye, Ruslan, Rahman, Brewster, Byrd, Peter, Mercer, Botha...and unlike Liston opponents theae guys were greater and full sized HWs so Klitchko did better job at erasing his loss against Purity.

 

Martin said that it just got worse after Liston fight and that something is wrong but he also had problems with that same eye before the Liston fight.

Like it was Julian Jackson who gave Gerald brain damage but Nigel Benn just finished the job and same goes for Artie Levine who gave Jimmy Doyle brain damage while SRR just finished the job.

 

Again not true, Sonny went to boxing gym and was fighting way before amateurs, he had amateur experience of 2 years plus 2 years amateur prison fights so that's 4 years unlike Amstrong who was not even fighting real fighters.

 

It means because you're stupid enough to realize that longer is better and Liston had longer amateur experience than Amsteong when lost, case closed.
If someome win AUU Golden gloves, had 2 years of amateur experience plus 2 years experience in amateur fights in prison that means he had longer amateur experience than Amstrong.

He was a bum, beat no one, most of his fights were losses by KO, he was a construction worker who was just a punching bag for young fighters to fill their records just like David Jaco or Ken Lakusta but he was even worse than them.

Did it affected his ability to take punches on the chin or his power?
Nope, he just lost his speed and leg power but his chin was still glass the same way it was before he was shot.

That book is a lot of nonsense and every big boxing expert would prove it wrong.
Marciano didn't have any face damage after Louis fight and on the film Marciano pushed Louis around like a kid despite being 30 pounds lighter.

Marciano again bullied Louis because he was the stronger man and better for infighting, and no, Louis didn't do any damage to Marciano nose, it was the Ezzard Charles who looked like the potato when he won against Louis.

Marciano bullied Louis in the clinches and a lie is that Louis did any damage to Marciano.

And Williams never faced someone like Rocky, the close one was Chuvalo which against Williams lost but Chuvalo didn't have the strenght, power, stamina and throwing punches all the time unlike Rocky, and Williams still lost.

Simmons fought both Marciano and Williams(Simmons past prime) and stated that Marciano punches harder with either hand, that's why Marciano stopped Simmons and Williams went distance with Simmons.

You're comparing top notch fighters with top notch fighters, but Folley, Machen and Williams were not that so it's stupid comparasion by you.

I'm comparing top notch fighters who were past prime with just average contenders not with great prime fighters.

Even that Holmes from Tyson fight would smoke Williams, Machen and Folley because they're not top notch fighters like Tyson and Holyfield.

Quarry was the first man who stopped Johnson and Satterfield was the first one that stopped Williams so it wasn't Liston as you wanna present.

I'm saying that Liston struggled with bums and contenders did better against these bums than him.

Same goes for Wepner and Johnson.

 

Because it was the final damage that got retina detatched inside the eye.

That doesn't mean that Martin didn't have it before that fights but he did, he had same eye problem before Liston fight.

 

So it looks like Liston accidentally loses in the 8th fight, since in the next ones he rematches twice, Wlad didn't do it. Liston defeated at least several much better opponents than Marshall in a dominant manner, which shows that his defeat at the beginning of his career was accidental. I don't know what you don't understand... even if Purritty was much better than Marshall, still Wlad was much further along in his career than Sonny, still Wlad lost much worse, and still Wlad didn't get his revenge.

 

Higher then Marciano, below Holmes.