Where do you rank sonny liston?

He fought after Chicago gloves, he won two golden gloves one as a HW one as LHW because he was 185 pounds.

Amstrong didn't fight boxers and didn't fight in tje golden gloves.

Also Liston had hundreds of prison fights in the ring and outside the ring.

He was more experienced than Amstrong, deal with that.

Because he was a punching bag with padded record that was used for boxers to get experience and for the another easy KO win.

Unlike Liston who made his money by boxing Marshall was 30 pounds lighter hungry man that worked full time job to supply his family.

Is his ability to take the punch affected and ability to throw one?

His legs were gone as well as his speed and mobility but his strenght was 90 percent of his prime strenght and his chin was the same...glass and weak.

And you mentioned that famous gunshot, but what Williams did before that gunshot to make you believe that he got worse after it?
What was his notable win except losing against Satterfield and Liston?
You're talking that he lost so many things after gunshot but he clearly did nothing even before that gunshot.

Have you watched the fight and after the fight pictures?
Seems like you didn't, they were just praising Louis in the book, Marciano bullied him and overpowered him with ease.
There was no any bleeding from Marciano and no, Louis couldn't a thing in clinches.

Louis was even amazed how hard to hit Marciano was.

Chuvalo was past prime and on decline too but you didn't mentioned that.

Also against what that famous pre gunshot Williams did except losing 3 best fights by KO?
That's the best thing he did, so he wasn't any good eveb before gunshot.

Ron Lyle fought with the same life threating injury before even started boxer but no one make excuses for him.

Williams was nothing special before gunshot to make me believe that gunshot damaged his carrer and that would do anything more good if there wasn't that gunshot.
He was limited contender with bad chin, deal with that.

If anyone came close to losing it was Williams because he barely got decision over Simmons unlike Marciano who knocked prime Simmons.

They were nothing,they did nothing, and they fought in weak era.
Had they fought in the 70s/90s they would not even be mentioned.

World class fighters my ass, Williams, Folley and Machen were only known for losing their life changing fights against better contenders and against champions.

They fought in mid late 50s when HW divison was the weakest in the history until 60s came with Ali, Frazier, Ellis etc and they lost all the big fights.

They didn't beat anyone good except green fighters who later destroyed the when they got experienced.

A peak Quarry stopped Johnson in 3rd round and Lyle did too, something even Liston couldn't and didn't do.

 

Liston did boxing way before prison and boxing wasn't unknown for him.

He was round tough people and aproached to fighting at early age

Also he had year amateur fights, 2.5 years prison amateur experience so he was much more experienced than Amstrong.

He also won golden gloves twice.

 

Nope, he was just a quitter with no heart dela with that.
He quit in both fights and cheated by using substances on his gloves to blind opponents.

He was just a bully who met his game and was never the same after that, same goes for Foreman.

I've seen fights with much worse injuries than his winning fights so stop with the excuses.

 

Because he didn't faced prime Foreman, Tyson, Louis, Tua...he would meet the same fate.

Also Liston wasn't the first man to KO Patterson, it was Johnason who dropped him with single punch.

 

You said he never know what boxing was before the prison and amateurs but I proved my point that he knew well.

 

Liston nuthuggers again?

This forum should be called Liston and his fans...with the picture of him in everypost and explaining how good he was based on what could he do if he didn't had this or did that.

 

Yep, because Foreman,Tyson and Louis are ATGs,Tua probably had the greatest left-hook in history.So all
those guys are on the same level as Liston,in Tua's case his punching power was similar to Liston's.Hardly a
condemnation of Floyd Patterson is it ?
Oh yeah,Johansson.The guy who was beaten by Patterson 2 out of three times and in the second fight damn
well nearly killed him.That Johansson.

 

We've been through all this nonsense before.Liston entered into the first Ali fight in severe pain from bursitis.
No modern fighter would enter into the ring under the same circumstances.Added to that Sonny sustained
a muscle tear that could have ended his career.This was backed up by several accredited figures such
as doctors,law officials etc.
As for the blinding substance Ali was the only victim of this happening,and according to Angelo Dundee
it was almost certainly accidental.
Yep,SonnyListon the no-heart bully who fought several rounds with a broken jaw in only his 8th
professional fight.

 

Sounds just like Jack Dempsey,who lost one and drew two of his first 9 fights.

 

But Johanson still knocked him down with one two combo and was the first man before Liston that stopped him so his chin was cracked before Liston fight.

 

Yep,a brief stint in a boxing gym as a 14 year-old,in your opinion,is a significant exposure
to boxing.
Gimme strength !

 

Dempsey had no amateur record and was fighting just to have to eat plus he sold those two fights.

 

You claimed he never even knew what boxing was but Liston new since he was haired by the local gangs because he could fight good.

 

So now you're saying that the reason Floyd Patterson was knocked out by Liston was
because of Johansson ?
Oh I see,so the only reason Marciano was able to beat Louis,Charles and Walcott was because
they were knocked out in previous fights.Fair enough.

 

Nobody denies that Liston was a terrific natural fighter.What's your point ?