Where do you rank sonny liston?

Sonny Liston was hardly brought up in a soft,luxurious life.He had a much harder life
than Dempsey.In real terms Liston was also fighting to eat .So please avoid passing
moral judgement on a man whose upbringing was so hideous that the likes of you
and me couldn't begin to understand how hellish Sonny's life was.

 

Then why some people close to Martin said that it was in the Newton fight and that it was the same eye that later got problems again?

Again not true, his eyes was bleeding but that doesn't mean that inside eye something wasn't wrong.
My evidence is good enough to prove that Martin retina problems started before Liston fight.

How do you know it was cut but not somethin about the eye?
We don't know and we can't say that that his eye was healthy for Liston fight, at the end it was the same eye.

I only said that Simmons whom you mentioned was closer to beat Williams than Rocky.

You stated that Rocky was almost beaten by Simmons which is not true since he knocked Simmons who later past prime and outshaped went 15 rounds with Williams.

 

Hey, it's nice work if ya can get it....

 

Yes when it's about size difference and quality.

That's like saying that losing against Tyson by KO is worse than going full decision with Jimmy Ellis or Oscar Bonavena.

Again comparing someone that was smaller than Liston by 30 pounds with someone who was real sized HW and better fighter is insane.

Liston was advanced when lost again another journeyman called Leotis Martin.

 

Only stupid response here is by you because you mentioned Dempsey who had no amateur record and who threw fights for money because he needed it.

Comparing his early losses with Sonny who went to Golden Gloves and had 2 years prison amateur fighting experience is stupid.

 

And yet Rocky fought with nose split which caused terrific pain and blurry vision but unlike your hero he didn't quit just like Frazier didn't want to quit against Ali.

That's what separates champions from cowards.

 

Comparing thise two fights is stupid.

Marciano cancelled fight with pro champion who was bigger than him while Liston fought a guy who was not even a boxer but construction worked whom Liston outweighted by 30 pounds.

 

Liston had tough life until he moved to his mother at age of 13 while Dempsey life was tougher because he lived on wild west plus he was a hobo until age of 17/18 fighting for food.

You only proved here that Dempsey had tougher life by your own stupidity.

 

you still don't address my arguments - attacking Liston for being 30 pounds heavier than Marshal is like attacking Holmes for having a 10-inch longer reach than Tyson. It's not Liston's problem that he was bigger than his rivals.
What does it matter that Liston lost the 8th fight in his career against a more experienced opponent when he won the next two and proved many times that he was better than various Marshalls. Unless you think Marschall was better than Patty, Folley, Williams, Harris, Valdez... and he wasn't even close. So either Liston has improved significantly, or the defeat against him was purely accidental. It's either one or the other... there is no third way. Walcott, Schmelling, Moore, Charles, Hagler, Monzon, Paquiao also lost to various Marshalls at the beginning of their careers.

 

Reach is not important but weight classes are as for Holmes and Tyson they were both real size 200 plus pounds HW while Marshall was LHW and small one.

Holmes and Tyson are both HWs while Marshall wasn't.

If he lost against someone better like Harold Johnson or Bob Satterfield I wouldn't be suprised but the fact that he lost against that bad journeyman who was smaller 30 pounds than him is proving that he wasn't great.

That would be like Tyson losing against David Jaco or Foreman against Peralta or Wepner.

Defeat by points with broken jaw can't be accidental except if he threw this fights but that's not the case.

Did Ali, Marciano, Tyson, Foreman, Frazier, Holyfiels or any other great fighter lost fight against someone like Marshall?

 

Jesus.

 

Totally untrue. No one "close to Martin" said it was in the Newton fight.

No. You said Williams "barely got decision over Simmons". There's no point lying about it, it's there in black and white in your own previous post (post #166 for anyone who wants to check).

Wrong. I never said Rocky was "almost beaten by Simmons".

 

lol I reported the bloke for being an alt of 3 permabanned accounts.

I didn’t report him at first because his stupidity is genuinely entertaining, but the novelty has worn off.

Can’t imagine he’ll be around much longer.

 

no, but Wlad, Dempsey, Johnson, Walcott, Norton and not all of them avenged their defeats. What matters is how high you climb and in what style, not whether you trip over a curb when you are just learning to walk. For me, the fact that Liston became such a great fighter later is proof of his greatness - from losing to Marshall to outclassing the linear champion, impressive!!

 

Who was close to him?
Not only promoters saw that but the crowd did too.
Found this:
The eye damage might have come in the Liston fight, but some fight figures say the injury was picked up in Martin’s earlier fight, with Wendell Newton a couple of months before.

Source: Remembering Leotis Martin – The Fighter Who Flattened Liston And Might Have Been Avoided By Frazier - Latest Boxing News (https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-news/remembering-leotis-martin/148932)

That's because you compared Simmons and Marciano but it was the Marciano who stopped prime Simmons while Williams went distance and I said that Simmons was closer to winning against Williams than against Marciano.

You did and said that he struggled too much with him.