Where do you rank sonny liston?

By who?
Liston had 3 years amateur fighting experience while Dempsey hadn't any and that's the big difference.

That's like saying that Tyson without any amateur experience would have not lose against good fighters, Liston too.

If Liston haven't boxed before pro fighting do you think that he would even have a chance beating Marshall?

Laughable.

 

And yet Marciano cancelled the fight because he went on to show no quit in the fight with Walcott who was a champion while Liston showed " heart" against bum that he outweighted by 30 pounds and then shiet himself by cheating and quitting in two of biggest fights in his life.

 

What courage?
Against a bum and 30 lbs lighter LHw?
I don't call that courage because if he had any he wouldn't quit in both Ali fights and cheat with substances.

Not if he went and beat Ali but since he didn't even in rematch I could ac use him unlike Marciano who showed great heart and beating Walcott...twice.

 

Do you think Liston would survive one day in the wild west by nothaving to eat and fighting dangerous people for food and sleep?

Yes since he was Irish and native American descent and was living in the wild west where everything was solved by brutal killing.

Dempsey lived in the harder era, post civil war era when the life was very violent.

 

around 8 - 12 spot is fair for Liston

 

If you genuinely believe that Dempsey's life was as hard as Liston's then you are
being unbelieveably naive.

 

For the umpteenth time Marty Marshall was a capable,brave professional boxer.You really do
come across as an ignorant oaf by your continous use of the word '' bum ''.

It would be far easier for Liston to quit in what was a very low profile fight ( only his 8th professional fight
in case you've forgotten ) than it was for Marciano to quit in a world-championship fight.Actually it's
fair to say that Liston showed even more courage than Marciano.

As for your reference to '' cheat with substances '' I,and several other posters, have totally
discredited the dubious claims of Eddie Machen that his eyes were tampered with.
Angelo Dundee himself has said he believe that the substance got into Ali's eyes by mistake.
Liston didn't '' quit '' against Ali.He suffered an injury that could have ended his career.
Again this has been explained to you many,many times.

 

And yet Marciano cancelled a world-championship defence because of a mere bloody
nose while Sonny Liston fought several rounds with a broken jaw in a very low profile fight.

Your absurd accusations of Liston quitting and cheating have been totally rebutted by myself
and several posters using logic and good old-fashioned common sense.Qualities that you
sadly lack.

 

So according to you Dempsey had no grounding in boxing before he turned professional.
Are you really that dumb or are you trolling ?

 

Crikey this thread got strange. It's a bit reminiscent of 'cardboard box? Lucky to have a cardboard box!' With Dempsey and Liston set as the Yorkshiremen!!

 

He was, but he didn't formally retire until later in April 1970, so the ratings gave him the benefit of the doubt.

 

I have pointed out several times that the fact that Liston was a big weightlifter was his advantage, not a disadvantage, and the fact that he got back at Marty is not a great achievement. It only proves that either he has made great progress since the 8th fight in his career or the 8th fight in his career was a complete accident. Choose the version you like better, there is no third option
Williams, Patterson, Folley, Harris, Valdez... everyone had a glass jaw? Why couldn't Quarry do anything to the glassy and broken Patterson if it was so easy? Why couldn't someone like Archie Moore do this to the young, green Patterson? Floyd and Williams won enough fights to prove that they were not easy to knock out and were very dangerous themselves, but not to Liston. The ease with which Sonny dominated them shows that he was an absolutely exceptional hitter. Do I believe Foreman? yes.. he could be afraid of Frazier, Tyson and Liston, definitely.
I also believe Manny Steward when he said he had never seen a fighter like Liston and that Clay would never have beaten Liston from 1959-1962, and I also believe Angelo Dundee when he said that Sonny would crush Holyfield with one hand like a bug. Ali, who fought with Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Quarry, considered Liston the most terrifying so by denying this and discrediting Liston, you are putting yourself in the role of a layman who has little knowledge of boxing and bases your opinions on rumors

 

How can losing by points be complete accident with broken jaw?
That's called boxing, it's like you said that Sonny lost against Ali was accidental which isn't.

Valdez- past prime

Patterson/Folley- smaller than him by 20 pounds with glass jaw

Williams- one handed slugger with power but not good boxing basics, no defense and weak chin.

And yet Quarry knocked Wepner in 3rd round and Johnsons in 2nd which Liston couldn't do too.

Style make fights, Quarry had problem with pressure fighters but had no problem with boxers and sluggers.

Also comparing Liston with Quarry who was just contender is stupid, compare how would Tyson or Foreman do against Patterson that same night, I think it would be the same outcome.

Floyd was the heavyweight who was dropped the most time in boxing history and Williams was KOed out in 3 rounds by LHW Bob Satterfield who wasn't a great fighter.

Against smaller man yeah but first time he fought someone good he quit...twice.

I don't, since Foreman was humble man but he wasn't scared of anyone ever.

Manny Steward?
Was he a boxer or boxing historian because he called some great fighters weak.

Lennox Lewis who was superior and bigger fighter couldn't crush past prime Holyfield and after watching Bowe fights I'm sure that Holyfield has big chance of beating Liston same way Ali did.

But did he mention his power or heart since Ali also stated few mlre things against guys he faced?

 

He didn't except street fighting for food and for survival if that's any experience.
Only dumb here is you.

 

And yet Marciano showed great heart in both fights with Walcott without Quitting and Walcott was champion unlike Marshall who was a bum 30 pounds smaller than Liston.

How?
He cheated by putting substances on his gloves and quit, shoulder injury or not he's the only HW champion in history that Quit on his stool.

How's a quitter not a quitter, no matter what injury he had?