Does the Ali vs Ron Lyle fight show what Ali vs Foreman 2 could look like?

Interesting idea.

 

No, Ali was in the worst shape of his career with two exceptions going into that fight, and did virtually nothing all night.

He would’ve taken Foreman far more seriously and came in at far better shape.

 

Foreman is a better fighter than Lyle.

 

Foreman is harder hitting and more dangerous.

I think Foreman would try to pace himself and Ali could come in better prepared and eventually stop Foreman late or decision him ala Young. Foreman's confidence was shattered vs Ali.

If Foreman was patient but also aggressive in mixing up his punches to the body and head, using his jab, and fighting aggressively but also not putting in 100% on each shot, he could end up winning a decision.

Ali UD 15. Foreman would try and pace himself too much instead of the appropriate amount.

However, if Ali showed up in as poor a shape vs Lyle, Foreman might even stop him.

 

I think George maybe has a chance with its jab since he didnt use it in the first one, but excluding that hes tailor made for a short crisp accurate puncher with ATG timing like Ali.

 

Not a stupid proposal at all.

I’ll just say that it’s not so cut and tried taking the version of a fighter against a specific opponent and transposing that version exactly into a fight against a totally different opponent.

Ali was very laid back and very lackadaisical vs Lyle but when he put the foot to the pedal he won.

A fight between two specific fighters and the dynamic that arises between them can be as unique as a finger print in terms of stylistic mesh and actions/reactions.

That’s why I don’t think it holds up too well when people want to take, say, the Louis of the Conn fight or the Ali of the first Cooper fight to suggest that X, Y and Z fighters would’ve beaten those versions - those versions were tailored and customised to the opponent at hand - and that includes mindset and any complacency that Joe and Muhammad took into those fights.

Ali would’ve def. taken Foreman far more seriously.

With a more paced and measured Foreman I think Ali still had enough left to box it out and get the decision or later round stoppage over the longer haul…but of course we’ll never know for sure.

 

I don't think so. I see the same result with Ali stopping Foreman again. Also, the Lyle fight didn't show anything, since Ali didn't take Lyle seriously and was toying with him most of the fight, since as soon as Ali turned it up he started beating the tar out Lyle and stopped him.

 

Not sure. You had two things going on there. Foreman went inactive for a while after Zaire and never seemed to recover for the rest of the decade. Meanwhile Muhammad Ali seemed to be diminishing from 1975 onward.

 

While I agree, I’d say the decline initially started after the damage he took against Foreman, but really went in full-swing after Manila.

 

While young Foreman effectively had a limited tank anyway, I’ll say the minimal number of rounds he’d had boxed over the few years prior to Zaire did him no favours - similar to another KO artist Liston going into the first Ali fight.

The abilities of both Sonny and George to end matters quickly ultimately bit them on the ass against the very same fighter who was never going to conveniently fall quickly - and that fighter turned the same trick a whole 10 years apart.

 

Foreman was a far better boxer than Lyle. And had a better chin.

the Ali who fought Lyle gets brutalized by Foreman.

 

While I agree, I’d say the decline initially started after the damage he took against Foreman, but really jump started after Manila.

 

Sure, he would have brought his A game. I think Foreman was too mentally messed up from Zaire to win, anyway, Ali traumatized him.

I do feel Ali was wrong to underestimate Lyle so contemptuously. Ron was always dangerous, probably moreso than Shavers overall. He more than proved that against Foreman afterward...I don't think Shavers would have lasted half that long against Foreman (as much as I love Earnie).