How is Usyk better than Canelo P4P?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by shadow111, Nov 11, 2018.


  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    So is Tarver your favourite fighter then?
     
  2. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Shamelessly ducked a prime GGG like he had leprosy. When he finally grew some balls - only after being forced into doing so by his own countrymen for bringing shame upon their country and all the great Mexican warriors who paved the way for him, he was gifted a scandalous robbery decision draw against him by his corrupt judges despite GGG whooping his freckled ass.

    Knew he could never beat GGG fair and square even on his stacked deck so he decided to jack himself with PEDs before the rematch but unfortunately he got caught with his pants round his ankles with the syringe sticking out of his ass.

    And then after his judges robbed GGG yet again in the rematch his little female dog ass not only shamelessly ducked the trilogy against him despite the fact it was the biggest most lucrative fight out there for him and the most sought after one by fans worldwide, but he did so until GGG was gone 40 and shot to bits to ''end the rivalry'' and prove ''who the better man was.'' A complete female dog move and there isn't a Mexican fighter in history, let alone of the greats, who would've pulled a move like that

    Should have multiple other losses on his ledger in addition to his two official ones to Floyd and Bivol and two unofficial ones to GGG. However, his corrupt judges are always there to bail him out to ensure the hype and gravy trains don't get derailed. When you fight Clenelo you're fighting at least four opponents not one

    One of them robbed Floyd and three of them desperately tried to rob Bivol despite the fact both Floyd and Bivol schooled his ass.

    He's a P4P ''great'' who can't deal with slick boxers to save his life. Imagine what a same size or even a much smaller Usyk would do to his ass? He would dog walk him in his sleep. He wouldn't even need to move out of first gear to trounce him, let alone second. Clenelo wouldn't be able to do a goddam thing to him with those lead feet of his

    Ever since he got schooled and castrated by Bivol he's morphed into petrified little hen who has shamelessly been ducking Benavidez like crazy and he wants absolutely nothing to do with legit threats and the elite fighters in his division. He's more interested in fighting scrubs, D and C levels, and if he does fight an A or B level they have to be inactive and be career opponents two weights South.

    He says Benavidez needs to prove himself or brings nothing to the table but then he goes and fights a scrub like Berlangy, C level Mung, and sends offers to MW Hamzah Sheeraz who hasn't even won a world title at 160, let alone 168

    He cries about the 185 Benavidez being too big when he himself comes in at 178-180 and Berlangy and Mung are 190lbs +

    The 183lb Bivol was too big but the weight difference between him and GGG at 160 would've been more than that and I mean in Clenelo's favour.

    And Clenelo was beating up leprechauns at 147, 154, and 155 and how much weight did he have on Floyd and Khan in the ring? :lol:

    Clenelo would've been dumped out the P4P top 10 long ago if he didn't have the judges in his pocket to wave their magic wands and transform Ls into Ws
     
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  3. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Agreed about him ducking and trying to age out GGG. And the criminally biased judging.

    That being said, i do think he is extremely talented and has beaten a lot of good fighters like Plant and Sanders.
     
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  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    The difference between us is that I scored that fight from the press rows.
     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    The difference is you only argue when it suits the agenda of your favourite fighter.

    If you believe Canelo proved himself the best MW in the world when he fought Golvokin, fair play to you. I'm happy for you.

    I just don't see a reasonable argument to rank Canelo as greater than Usyk.
     
  6. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    He's a great fighter but there are so many asterisks on his CV and if he didn't have the judges in his pocket his greatness would be greatly diminished
     
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  7. tarrant45

    tarrant45 Active Member Full Member

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    Good post but I need to correct you here. He was coming in at 174 when he was fighting at 154. He outweighed GGG when they fought and I have seen reports he outweighed Bivol and Kovalev in the ring (192lbs). Canelo is a weight Bully his whole career.

    He has not had a p4p performance in 3 years since the Plant fight, he should not even be on the list anymore if you factor in ducking Benavidez so badly. That should be a DQ
     
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  8. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Thanks. Yes that's what I meant. He would've had a significant weight advantage on GGG in the ring

    Yes he was a weight bully at the lower weights and he's a fully fledged 168 pounder who is built like a tank. I'm going by his own words when I say he weighed 178-180. Bivol said he weighed 183 against Clenelo and that is right in keeping with his numerous other fight night weights. 180-184

    Clenelo was coming in as high as 172-174 at 154 and 155

    Kovalev said he weighed 180 and 182lbs for his previous two fights prior to facing Clenelo. His max weight was 189 but he usually came in lighter than that. As low as 181 once but more the mid 180s IIRC
     
  9. Mickc

    Mickc Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Usyk since turning pro has cleaned out two divisions,fought the best in each division and yet to take a loss,with the majority of his fights on the road and whilst at Heavyweight doing so whilst considerably the smaller fighter. Canelo can only dream of a resume like that !
     
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  10. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He hasn't cleared heavyweight especially when the era is turning. Beat the best heavyweights though
     
  11. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Agreed

    And that is the most frustrating part about Canelo. His head movement, chin, punching variety, counter punching and body punching is some of the best i have ever seen in any weight division. I would be ok with him having a few more losses as long as the judging was honest. But it isn't. I don't know how someone like him can be so comfortable knowing the judges are in his pocket.
     
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  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    He has excellent defence and slickness but dwarfism also plays a big part in that too

    I've heard he has orangutan hair implants too and they are very greasy (and smelly) so many of his opponents punches will just slide off his hair
     
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  13. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    :qmeparto:
     
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  14. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You hit the nail on the head right here. Usyk doesn't have the kind of skills you mentioned here. Canelo is more skilled in these areas than Usyk. He has better punch technique, he's better at setting up punches, setting traps. Head movement, body punching, etc. Usyk is a much more basic fighter than Canelo.
    You're making silly excuses, if you disagree with how some of his fighters were scored, that's your issue, it doesn't stop you from rating him as a fighter in terms of P4P. You said it yourself, you rate his skills, that's what P4P is about.
    LOL Canelo can only dream of a resume like that? Usyk can only dream of Canelo's resume. Canelo has 3 times as many fights as Usyk, Usyk's been Undisputed, so has Canelo. Canelo's resume destroys Usyk's. It's not even close. Now you can complain about some of Canelo's decisions or the fact that he has two losses, but the level of competition he's fought is far better than Usyk's. He's challenged himself vs much higher skilled fighters than Usyk has been in with. And yeah some of those tough challenges were controversial. That's what happens when you fight the best.

    Not only that but Usyk is no stranger to controversy. He was dropped by Dubois and was saved by the ref ruling it low. And against Fury he was getting completely outboxed over the first half of the fight before turning the fight around and escaping with a decision. So Usyk has been far from dominant, he's had his share of struggles as well. The difference is that the people Canelo has fought and lost to are far better than the guys Usyk has struggled with.

    Canelo has had his share of controverisal decisions, but that's what happens when you challenge yourself against the best time and time again. That's not a knock on Canelo that's a badge of honor, and proves that he's battle tested.

    When I made this topic back in 2018, Canelo was the clear consensus P4P #1, he stayed that way until he lost to Bivol, and since then he's been dominant. The question I asked is what makes Usyk better. All I hear is his accomplishments, he became Undisputed at Heavyweight, etc, etc. P4P is not a comparison of accomplishments, it's a comparison of skills. Canelo is just a far more skilled fighter than Usyk. Usyk is a good fighter but he hasn't been fighting at as high of a level as Canelo has been over a long period of time. He doesn't have the skills that Canelo has.
     
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  15. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    I wouldn't call Usyk basic. Usyk has some of the best defense i have seen. He has been going up against monster punchers like Joshua and Dubois as well as Bredis without being knocked down once.

    I think Canelo has more offensive ability than Usyk but Usyk has plenty of good offense - good enough to keep men 20-40 lbs heavier than him scared of committing. He slowed down Fury with body shots after all.
     
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