Who was the greatest defensive fighter of all time, not counting JJ

Mayweather, including Robinson and Jack Johnson. Robinson was kind of sloppy on defense.

 

Mayweather, Duran, Pep, Locche, Sweet Pea, Zapata, Napoles, Benitez

Mayweather was the most consistent at all facets of defence on film but styles make for fights, as well as perceptions. It's a lot harder to demonstrate Duran's nuances as defensive excellence when you're coming into the danger zone so aggressively than it is to do what Floyd did from relatively safer positions in the ring.

 

Robinson had only his footwork as a good way of defense, so he doesn´t belong here...

I think Mayweather was harder to hit than Whitaker... I go with Pep for the all time though.

 

Pernell Whitaker
Willie Pep
Nicolino Locche
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Wilfred Benitez
Andre Ward
Marlon Starling
Miguel Canto
James Toney
Hilario Zapata
Miguel Lora
Sumbu Kalambay

 

Robinson and Shane Mosley basically fought the same way.

 

Yes, and both never were known for their defense...

Oh, Sid Terris is supposed to have been a great defensive guy;

 

Robinson got tagged up a lot

Byrd and Locche come to mind for me, behind Mayweather who is probably the best I've seen.

 

At HW its Jimmy Young.

Would say Maxim but Maxim more just couldn't knock people out then being a defense guy. He had great jab.

 

The fighter highest on my ATG P4P list that I think of as a defensive specialist, is Willie Pep.

 

is it pure defence or how they use defence skills in their boxing?

if hitting the other guy is irrelevant then locche 4 sure.

 

From the little WW footage we have, Robbie demonstrated good headmovement, drawing and slipping punches to land his own.

Admittedly, his style usually saw him neglecting defence in order to land his own arsenal of punches.

 

Pep
Benitez
Duran
Locche
Benton
Mayweather
Toney
Canto

 

Nicolino Locche.

In a best of the 1970's versus best of the 1980's division by division magazine article published after Pryor-Arguello II, it was concluded that after 15 rounds, the Hawk would find Locche too untouchable. (Considering how wild Aaron was, NOBODY objected in the next issue's letters to the editor.)

Ray Arcel said Locche, over Pep, Benitez, Loughran, Benny Leonard, Duran, Jimmy Young and countless others. The guy clowned Cervantes in a Championship Distance shutout.

At the IBHOF in late February 1993, Pep provided the tour for my father and I (something he frequently enjoyed) and he told us he too thought Locche was the greatest defensive artist. Willie emphasized that he was a runner who could also be a dangerous puncher. Footage shows what a great defensive master he was when standing still, but he wasn't quite Locche and Saddler did nail him to the body. Defending the body when standing still is something special. Peak Wilfredo Gomez was excellent at picking off body shots.

Something overlooked about Locche's defense really is how effectively he protected his body. Paul "Hammerfists" Fuji was smart. The Hawaiian USMC veteran repeatedly winged his bombs at Locche's torso, but Nicolino repeatedly smothered and deflected them, so Paul couldn't even hit his arms solidly. The 1968 Japanese color videotape of Fuji's three title bouts is in spectacular quality.

Once, Fuji did nail a massive right, the same sort of single shot that had just dropped durable German Willy Quatuor for the full count, but Locche's huge cranium stood up to it.

Fuji had won the World's Junior WW Title by knocking out 1960 Italian Gold Medalist fencing master Sandro Lopopolo in two rounds. In Lopopolo's 76 bouts, he was only otherwise stopped in 13 rounds, the penultimate bout of his 11 year career. Paul Fuji was a Japanese Cuevas, where every punch could be a knockout blow. (Interestingly, Lopopolo's previous defeat to Fuji was a nontitle decision loss to Loccche.)

As is widely known, Locche did have a huge cranium, yet butts were not a factor in his 136 fight career where 121 went to the final bell. He is derided by Steve Compton as a spoiler, yet he was only stopped on cuts in the Cervantes rematch, a stoppage which he protested tearfully. His bleeding was not butt induced.

Locche-Benitez for the JWW Championship in 1976 was a real possibility for Locche's career finale after El Radar dethroned Cervantes (who himself was a great defensive fighter). But Locche was aging, and Benitez had a dangerous offense. (Wilfred's errant stereotype as a light puncher was really based on Cervantes, Palomino and Weston, Jr., three guys noted for their punch resistance. But he wrecked Tony Petronelli on national television, decked and stopped the durable defensive master Randy Shields with a single shot, SRL said Palomino was way off the mark about his power, then he decked power punching Johnny Turner with a perfect hook, then destroyed Maurice Hope, another durable guy.)


We do not have fight footage of him, but Maxie Rosenbloom was only stopped twice in 298 bouts, while only winning 19 via stoppage. He decisioned Nova, drew with Pastor and ended his career by halting Al Ettore in three. (Let's acknowledge here that some of his stoppage wins were probably not on the level.)

Slapsy Maxie routinely played with and beat top HWs with a serious punch. His record of conquests is crazy. Could absolutely have gotten a HW Title shot without too much protest, but it was very rarely contested during his career. Could've gotten a shot at Louis, but like Walker and others, probably wasn't interested. (The jaunty Walker wrote, "Even at my best, I knew I couldn't have licked him.")


Ray Arcel was familiar with Rosenbloom though. In cases where we didn't see certain guys he did, we have to take Arcel's word for it that Locche was superior defensively. It is crazy though that like Locche, Rosenbloom never lost on cuts.


I haven't watched post Championship Distance era boxing much, so whether or not later guys like Whitaker or PBF were superior is up to others to judge.

 

Joe Gans and Mike Gibbons are up there alongside the names listed in the thread