Best I've faced: Joe Bugner

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Feb 19, 2016.


  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Best overall: Muhammad Ali, who was the greatest of all time in my opinion. What made him so special was that he was phenomenal in and out of the ring. Ali could sell anything to anyone, so he marketed his own fights and in that respect he was a promoter's dream.

    I recall both fights like they were yesterday and had studied this legend for years, before facing him. He wasn't champion when we met the first time, in Las Vegas in 1973, and both of us were looking for a world title fight at the time.


    I had known him since 1969, when we sparred together, and by the time we faced off I'd had 48 professional fights and was considered a fully matured heavyweight. Still, on the downside, I was only 22 years old and here was Ali who was able to dictate and dominate a fight at will.

    I tried very hard to overcome him but there was no point going all out on the attack, because he would just pick me off with ease. In truth I fought like a poor man's Ali and picked my times to box smart.

    I just wasn't as smart, or as quick, as he was.


    Best boxer: Muhammad Ali. I take pride in the fact that a lot of people in Las Vegas thought our first fight was closer than the judges had it, but Ali definitely won.

    Speed wise he was on the ball and technically he was just awesome. I tried to out jab him but once he had you on the end of his own left hand he could bring out all these combinations, from nowhere, leaving fans, and opponents, in awe.


    Best puncher: Earnie Shavers. He was an enormous puncher, but I have real issue with that fight because of a conversation Shavers and I had years later. Apparently Don King told Earnie to get me out of that ring, by any means necessary, and not to worry about disqualification.

    Now if you watch the fight I get caught with a good right hand in round two but a follow up head butt, which the referee didn't pick up on, caused a serious cut. That wound above my left eye required 14 stitches and it wasn't from a punch.

    Now, take into account that Don King was a creature of incredible power within the boxing world and he played dirty as far as I'm concerned. I didn't like him from the word go end of story.

    I also have to say that the most vicious and relentless fighter on the planet, in those days, was Smokin' Joe Frazier.

    Best defense: Muhammad Ali again. So many people ask why I couldn't land on him when his hands were low and I always explain that he was the best part of two meters away from me, when he did that. Ali would throw punches as his legs were bringing him in, which was a gift.

    Joe Frazier bobbed and weaved really well, but I was able to find the target and if I'm to be brutally honest I thought I won that fight on a very close decision. Harry Gibbs (referee and sole official scorer of the Frazier-Bugner fight) had awarded me the decision over Henry Cooper, two years earlier, and was given a horrendous time by the British media for doing so. In my mind he didn't want to give me the Frazier fight for fear of a repeat backlash.

    Fastest hands: Muhammad Ali. He was in his early 30s both times we fought and still retained that remarkable hand speed, plus he knew me so well. The other thing is that Ali could read you and that only added to the natural speed he already had. When I set myself to punch Ali seemed to know what was coming and he responded in a flash. For example in the first fight I caught him with a beautiful right hand and he said, "Damn, good punch white boy, do it again!" Now, I was only 22 years old, which meant I was stupid enough to try it and he caught me with four solid punches to the jaw. The reactions, the speed, the timing, were brilliant.



    Fastest feet: Muhammad Ali. I know it might get boring (laughs) but there is no other contender in this one. Ali danced in the later rounds of both our fights and you must remember that the heat was incredible in the rematch. That tells you that he wasn't just fit, he was super fit and his feet were such a huge asset.

    Ali respected me a lot and knew I could trouble him when he least expected it. I took pride in that because he was, in my opinion, the greatest athlete in the world at the time and if you weren't ready for him then he would tear you to pieces.


    Best chin: Smokin'; Joe Frazier. He was so tough and I landed everything I had in that fight. He dropped me in round 10 with a huge left hook and I remember looking at Andy Smith (manager) who gave me the signal to get up. I got to my feet and suddenly Joe left himself wide open and I caught him with a perfect right hand on the button. His leg went from under him and his knee almost touched the canvas.


    Other than that moment Joe took everything I had for 12 rounds. He had a very good chin.


    Best jab: Muhammad Ali. I was very lucky in that I had learned so much from him in 1969 and practiced over a four-year period, before we faced each other. I learned from the best and the jab was one of the main things I tried to emulate.

    That gave me something that I could use in our fight.


    Strongest: Ron Lyle. He was a very strong opponent and although I lost a close decision the bottom line is close isn't good enough.

    Being honest I shouldn't have took that fight. I had just won the British, Commonwealth and European titles, after knocking out Richard Dunn in one round, and mentally I wasn't focused on Lyle. I blame myself for that but there was a lot of pressure to fight, because a huge amount of money was on the line.

    Lyle, in my mind, wasn't a fan of white people in those days and he saw it as kill or be killed against me. We didn't like each other, no doubt about that, but I was still young myself and not the sharpest tool in the box (laughs).


    Smartest: Muhammad Ali. Intelligence wise, in the ring and out, he was incredible. Before both our fights he asked me to give him a wink if a member of the press was nearby and I suppose I should have known better. I winked at him and suddenly he jumped out of his chair and screamed, He just called me a ******! I was stunned, just a kid at the time, and didn’t know what to say.

    Moments later Ali came over to me and said, "Hey Joe . Was I good?" I told him he'd made me look like a racist and he replied, "That was the whole idea. Joe Bugner we're selling tickets."
    He was close to the bone but there was always method behind his madness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2024
  2. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nice post :good


    I always liked Joe even though something stopped him from reaching his full potential. A little more industry could have earned him the nod in that close one with Ron Lyle.
     
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  3. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He gave smokin' Joe a good go after Frazier dropped him didn't he ??
     
  4. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah he sure did. I've always thought that in our lifetime,ability wise,he was our best heavy after Lennox Lewis.
     
  5. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He was but Joe was simply a nice person which affected him as a fighter.

    He fought because he was big, skilled, athletic and was successful at it but he didn't like fighting. He lacked the natural aggression and taste for combat that the best fighters have imo.

    But today Joe still has all his faculties and his health and compared to many of his contempories he hasn't done too bad at all despite his shortcomings as a fighter.
     
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  6. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes. He originally wanted to be a discus thrower,apparently.
     
  7. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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  8. Phil_Ivey_76

    Phil_Ivey_76 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Agreed.
     
  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    He went on about what an animal Lyle was and how Ron, even as an old guy gave him the being of is life, ****ing blood, the whole thing .. Lyle was a brutal guy ..
     
  10. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Thank you! :good I agree.
     
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Well, let's not forget Ulric Regis. That was probably the cause of it.
     
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  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Interesting info cheers.:good
     
  13. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    His daughters went to school with Ali's daughters when they both lived in Los Angeles. I forgot all the details but when he saw Ali in his later years he kissed him. It kind of shocked him.
     
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  14. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Bugner was Liston sparring partner and so was Foreman and both stated that Lyle was the strongest man of all boxers there shows how strong was Ron Lyle..
     
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  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Correct. He was never the same after killing a man (Ulric Regis) early in his career. Similar to Baer.
    Yup he was rusty in that bout iirc. Coming off a near two year lay off, with the exception of 2 minutes against Dunn.
     
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