Why did Sonny Liston fade out of the title picture after losing his rematch to Ali?

Because the public thought he threw it and lost respect for him, he was de-legitimized

 

If I remember he wasn't exactly thrown off the ratings,but many was said to have ducked him.(According to John McGlothlin if I remember correctly, he's not the brightest person when it comes to Joe Louis but whatever.)

 

It’s hard to recover mentally when you for years have believed your the best than someone comes along and just shows there’s another level and you know there’s no way you could beat them

 

He lost badly twice, mob connected guy in a sus looking loss, no one wanted a third fight and Liston himself took to fighting guys who barely had a pulse and rejecting real offers… in short he didn’t earn any attention.

 

He was black balled from the picture because of his alleged dive in the second Ali fight along with his mafia affiliation. He still managed to hold a rating and get a few semi-meaningful fights but basically he was done challenging for any title

 

Not only that he fought no one worth public attention and now we had Muhammad Ali to watch.

 

This.

 

Ok, here we go. Theres quite a lot to discuss but ill try to keep it short.
No one liked Liston so when a more charismatic and charming young man cemented himself over him, no one batted an eye. Everyone at the arena knew Liston dove during the second bout, even in recordings you can hear them shouting "FIX!" so tell me this. If a boxer dove during what was at the time one of the most important boxing bouts ever which you payed good money to pay, would you still support them? To this day we don't know this motives, and we never will.

I see Liston as one of the first victims of cancel culture, cringe as it sounds. He represented something that America didnt want to acknowledge the existence of, violent and uneducated black men. In a time where America was recovering from WW2 and establishing civil rights, the Picture boy of the biggest sport being a former fields worker who now beats up cops and couldn't read nor write didn't exactly support the movement. Not only was the White House against Liston as seen when John F Kennedy invited Patterson to the white house and begged him to beat Liston, but he also had most major institutions against him. The media painted him as a horrible person calling him a "Gorilla" and one even called him a " jungle beast." So these institutions were THRILLED to outcast Liston from the sport as soon as possible.

Also, the timing didn't really help his case. He was right before the Golden age of boxing in Frazier, Foreman, Ali, and many others. being the catalyst which was knocked out to start the transition its easy to forget him, even though he matches up quite well imo.

Honestly though, if not for a few instances it would have been very possible for me to have never heard about Liston. The most famous mentions of him "recently" were from old George Foreman on an interview and of course Mike Tyson proclaiming how he's cut from the same cloth as Liston. If not for Tyson and Foreman, Liston would have most likely faded into an even bigger degree of obscurity. Aside from them the most famous mentions were Ali explaining how Liston was much better than Foreman in the buildup to the Rumble in the Jungle which lets be honest, no one who isn't a boxing fan has watched those pre fight interviews.

Hope this helps!

 

If someone loses twice to the champ they really need a new champ to get back in the discussion and often rebound off a lower level of competition. Like how Patterson got his title shot at Ali because Ali beat Liston. If Liston had continued his reign that probably doesn't happen.

And yes in the aftermath of the fall of the IBC people were very sensitive about the whole mob thing.

 

This is a link to the July 1968 issue of Ring Magazine on Internet Archive ... you might have to sign up to see it, but it's a good place to sign up for ... with a pretty good and legit sounding discussion of Liston's career issues at that point in time.

https://archive.org/details/the-ring-july-1968

 

That is not true that Liston fought guys with barely a pulse or that he rejected real offers.

No disrespect to the man, but it appears that you’re running with the Special K line of thinking - which was proven to have multiple holes.

Btw, we will ever see @klompton back? I didn’t always agree with him - par for the course in discussion with anyone - but he was a knowledgeable poster and made some fair points.

 

Liston wasn't fighting title level opponents. But he wasn't fighting cans.

People in the 21st century have gotten way too picky with the resumes of non champions. Like every single day theres a disagreement where someones like "who'd they REALLY fight" and theres no answer that will satisfy them except borderline IBHOFers.

 

Excellent link. Without clicking on it (I’ve seen said mag before) I’m pretty sure such mags are viewable without sign up.

I think that mag was also linked in the old thread below along with some other old mags -

I wish this particular thread could be stickied/pinned - it already has some useful scans which of course could be added to if anyone has same and is inclined to share: -

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/vintage-boxing-magazine-scans.673824/

 

He didn’t fight anybody good after Ali that’s a fact and he was KO’d by Leotis Martin… where has it been disproven that he didn’t turn down fights against Quarry, Ellis and Foster?