Why did Sonny Liston fade out of the title picture after losing his rematch to Ali?

Which is my point, no pulse, they weren’t factors in the division he was done contending and rejected offers to get back into title discussion.

 

It would be easier for me to find the thread (not that finding said thread would necessarily easy - lol) than to rehash the bonafides of several of Liston’s post title opponents -

Also, there was certainly an argument that better rated fighters weren’t exactly willing to take the risk against him - notwithstanding some disingenuous claims that they were ready and willing to face Liston (see Champ Ellis for one example).

But I hear your point re the retroactive, unrealistic modern view of what a good opponent was - I mean, shock, horror - souring his record, opponent X already had 1-2 losses, he must’ve been absolute ****!

If they didn’t have a ZERO going in then they must’ve been a ZERO. Haha.

 

@Pugguy

Usyk turned down a $10,000,000,000 contract to give me a title shot. Prove it didn’t happen.

 

Henry Clark was no good? Sure.

It’s NOT a fact.

Where has it been proven that he did turn down all those offers?

There’s evidence in fact that suggests that Ellis and Dundee didn’t want any part of Liston despite prior claims that they were willing to take the fight.

 

There was a general disgust with Liston. The criminal record, the continuing arrests, the Senate subcommittee hearings, the evasive testimony, the details of his hoodlum management, his surliness with the press, the sight of him quitting on his stool in Miami, then the Lewiston stinkaroo -- the powers in boxing were done with him and so was the public. People don't like being treated like suckers.

 

I understand that the burden of proof is clearly on me Swag and I’m now racking my brains trying to find a way out of my conundrum. It seems I have been checkmated.

 

And then if they have a 0 "they didn't fight anyone".

 

And what is wrong with Leotis Martin? Who he was beating and would have defeated if he'd gotten up?

What about Chuck Wepner? What about Amos Lincoln? What about Henry Clark? What about Rischer. Zech if nothing else was 6 ft 5.

 

Fellas if the best guy you beat is Henry Clark a feather fist fighter ranked 7? and the only other contender you fight is Leotis Martin who brutally KO’s you, you aren’t the boogeyman anymore he was a guy in the shark tank. Amos was a sparring partner who lost 4/5 bouts when he met Sonny, Chuck Wepner? Seriously? He turned down offers for Quarry, Ellis and Foster, he called out Quarry and when push came to shove he didn’t sign multiple times… Ellis wanted the bout can you show me where he was ducking Liston? And Mac Foster absolutely wanted it, he’d KO’d Liston in sparring. IMO he was cashing out against lesser opponents to keep the gravy train going instead of risking it on someone like Ellis, he was a former heavyweight champion people would pay to watch him fight whoever it was lol.

 

Henry Clark is not the best guy Liston beat though hes 3rd behind Wepner and Lincoln. Arguably 4th with Rischer in there.

Liston was not a champion of even the regional variety at this time though he almost became one. You're saying the guys he was fighting weren't factors in the division at the time but whats your point? You have an unrealistic expectation of the sort of competition someone like Liston would be fighting with no sort of belt attached to him. Foreman was the NABF champ after losing to Ali and in his non title bouts his level of competiton went down dramatically. Who tf wants to fight someone like Sonny Liston in a bout with no hardware on the line? This is the way it was and still is.

 

My whole point is he was fighting nobody because he wasn’t good enough to contend anymore or ever get a title at that point he knew it… he passed up chances to fight better opponents that would’ve brought him into the discussion because he was keeping the money coming in against spar mates, no hoper etc Liston knew he couldn’t win he ducked Quarry, Ellis and Foster… for the likes of an okay? Feather fisted Clark (only ranked guy (7) he beat in his comeback) and Lincoln who lost four out of five of his last fights… Wepner basically sucked man come on…

 

"Wepner basically sucked man come on"

This line undermines the rest of your argument.

Lincoln lost 3 of 4 to Mildenberger, Thad Spencer and Buster Mathis. Was fighting at a very high level and losing.

 

Seriously? What are you even arguing here? Like I said Amos lost 4/5 bouts before Liston and Wepner sucked compared to the vast, vast majority of contenders I don’t even think he was ranked when Liston fought him… Liston ducked the good offers and the chance to contend in Quarry, Ellis and Foster and opted for guys like Clark, Amos and Wepner… Leotis was “a” guy and he KO’d him end of - Sonny knew it and Saddler knew it he had no chance of getting the title back so he was fighting fodder and sparring buddies for good cash because he knew his limits ZERO chance he’d have fought someone like Quarry in his “comeback”

 

Wepner knocked down Muhammad Ali. He was the biggest guy knocked out by prime Foreman. Wepner did not suck.