Is Fury an ATG if he stops Usyk in fight II?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Tyson379, Dec 18, 2024.


  1. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    58,248
    77,166
    Aug 21, 2012
    Awesome. Then I guess my man Sanders is a certified ATG for beating an even better version of Wlad when he himself was old. ;)
     
    Pugguy and Dynamicpuncher like this.
  2. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    58,248
    77,166
    Aug 21, 2012
    She was threatening to kill herself?
     
    MaccaveliMacc likes this.
  3. rolzone

    rolzone Member Full Member

    202
    226
    Jul 2, 2021
    I dont think so, but what do I know. Usyks case for ATG boxer status is mostly based off the combination of his work at CW & HW. HW alone puts him in the conversation but the body of work is small. I'm. not sure what the case for Fury is or the basis for the question. I still maintain that he should be beating Usyk - he is a skilled big big man, not just a big man, him beating Usyk should not be an 'achievement'. The opposite is different because of the asymmetries I need not detail.
     
    Pugguy likes this.
  4. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    78,128
    126,871
    Jul 21, 2009
    Remember Usyk has to beat these way bigger giants twice in their backyards or on the road to secure a real victory over them whereas, conversely, had they gone 1-0 vs him it would've been game over. Done and dusted. Rivalry over. AJ and Belly are the better men. Onto the next. Get to the back of the queue Usyk.

    And don't forget they were trying to make Usyk fight AJ a third time to prove he was the ''better'' man even though he'd already done so twice before with everything stacked heavily against him and was giving away obscene physical advantages

    Obviously Usyk is the far superior and more decorated fighter to both AJ and Belly and it's only the huge physical advantages they hold over him that enable them to compete with him and equally obviously it's also what makes them so dangerous for him.

    When you're routinely facing murderous punchers and legit bangers and giants who hold huge/obscene physical advantages over you, like Usyk has been doing, literally some of the biggest punchers in the sport, and HW division whose super high KO% were amassed against other HWS and giants not blown up CWs, or who like Belly can crack hard when he sits down on his shots and whose power is obviously going to be magnified against someone much naturally smaller than him he has 40 or more pounds, you're playing Russian roulette everytime you step into the ring but when you're expected to beat some of these giants twice it's more bullets in the chamber and neither AJ or Belly deserved rematches against Usyk.


    Crawford won a highly controversial decision over Madrimov who was the champ not Crawford in Crawford's country with a stacked deck of a home ref and three home judges who somehow manage to score all these ''close fights which could go either way'' over in the US for the home fighter, but where is the pressure from fans and the media for Crawford to give Madrimov a rematch, let alone one in Madrimov's country with home refs and judges or over in Saudi?

    And don't forget that we had to listen to all this nonsense beforehand about Crawford fighting a much bigger man and I told everyone at the time that was completely untrue and that Crawford would, at worst, weigh the same as Madrimov with a massive reach advantage over him and that he would likely even weigh more than him and I was bang on the money again albeit only a very slight weight advantage. And Madrimov is only one of two legit KO artists/bangers his size he's fought in his entire career and all in his country too.

    But Crawford (who FTR I like and rate highly) just gets to move onto the next. Game over. Done and dusted. He's the better man. He's amazing. P4P#1. He's great. And Madrimov doesn't get a chance to avenge his loss and reclaim the title he gave Crawford the chance to win in his own country and this has so often been the case with so many of these privileged greats and favourites of the same fans who crap on Usyk despite the fact very few of them were giving up the kind of physical advantages Usyk is and they're usually fighting on a deck stacked in their favour.
     
    Pugguy likes this.
  5. 941Jeremy

    941Jeremy Active Member Full Member

    1,409
    909
    Sep 5, 2012
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    79,979
    20,557
    Sep 15, 2009
    Of course it does.

    Usyk, AJ, retire.
     
  7. Philosopher

    Philosopher Active Member Full Member

    1,077
    1,604
    Aug 10, 2024
    It's a wonderful paradox. Many people can't stand Fury and say he simply isn't all that, but elevate Usyk to ATG status for beating him...now, that makes no kind of sense. But, if Fury is/was no good, how did he manage to run Usyk so damn close and have several dominant rounds, only losing a split decision. And, if he beats Usyk, he ain't all that because Usyk is now old and small apparently. Usyk has become schrodinger's champion. Simultaneously great and poor depending what point you are trying to make.

    The truth is both men are wonderful fighters, and the first fight was very close. Neither man is significantly better than the other and either could win this weekends fight...but in doing so, neither will become the greatest, but to paraphrase Neon Leon they will simply be the latest...
     
    AdamT and Potwash like this.
  8. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

    14,756
    18,954
    Sep 5, 2016
    And if Fury wins on Saturday he'll have beat an older version of Usyk. So yeah, didn't really think that argument through, did we?
     
    Pugguy and MaccaveliMacc like this.
  9. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

    14,756
    18,954
    Sep 5, 2016
    Who is someone special to you in the HW division of the last twenty years? Just for comparison.
     
  10. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,282
    4,809
    Feb 27, 2024
    I dislike his lying, gaslighting and ducking the competition. When he fights top opposition and beats it, I really like the guy. He's a great boxer.
     
    AdamT likes this.
  11. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,294
    9,171
    Sep 18, 2019
    Anthony joshua
     
  12. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,294
    9,171
    Sep 18, 2019
    Least he would have beaten him, so not really the same as the wlad comparison, so did you think your comment through?

    Had Aj beaten usyk first, then he would have the greater win, but he didn't

    The key word in his comment is BEAT
    Aj did not beat Usyk. Fury this far hasn't either, but if he does? Then his win is better than 2 losses

    Not rocket science
     
    naranja likes this.
  13. naranja

    naranja Member Full Member

    120
    102
    Jan 28, 2016
    Nah my argument was watertight
     
    AdamT likes this.
  14. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    78,128
    126,871
    Jul 21, 2009
    AJ fought a much better Usyk not once but twice, the same version Belly ducked like he had leprosy and it took all the money in Saudi, losing a huge percentage of his own fans most of whom Brits including former big fan me, and months and months of ridicule and shaming of the boxing world to finally prise him out of the coop.

    He tried to age Usyk out and would only agree to fight him when he was 37 y/o so we can't just conveniently ignore that just like we shouldn't ignore the fact that many ATGs are PED cheats in these ATG debates which coincidentally he is too.
     
    Pugguy likes this.
  15. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

    15,417
    25,206
    Aug 22, 2021
    No.

    Obviously, Usyk’s P4P rating and absolute rating at HW are two different considerations.

    Among AJ’s successes, people also point to his failures - fair but it cuts both ways.

    Fury’s own struggle and arguable loss to a boxing debutant has been far more often explained away than duly factored into his resume.

    It’s a “loss” or struggle that has yet to be reversed - and AJ’s own emphatic KO of Francis doesn’t make it go away or lessen the discredit to Fury or lessen the comparative credit due to AJ.

    The same AJ, who was actually afforded a rematch (unlike some) and lasted a total of 24 rounds vs Usyk.

    Fury was basically stopped in 9 rounds in his one and only fight to date against an older, lesser Usyk.

    Fury isn’t just one fight away from total redemption in broad terms even though some want to fast track him to # 1 based on 1 possible win.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2024
    Serge likes this.