Whose retirement "timing" is better; Lennox Lewis or Rocky Marciano?

Were you around at the time? Did you read the newspapers?
There was absolutely talk of retirement and it was immediately after the Tyson fight.
Anything that happened after that centered on the possibility of a Tyson Rematch.

Sorry - but which point of mine are you trying to address here?
Do you know how much money was made by Lewis and Tyson for their fight?
How much money do you realistically think was on the table for Lewis Vitali II?
When you've answered those two questions, you might just realize the extent of the optimism in your assertion that: "[Lewis has] never had... ... more money for a fight."

What is there to dispute? Lewis won. Period.

Speculating what might happen if they fought again is just that - speculation - as is guessing at the influences that determined his course of action in 2004. You might just as well assert that Lewis left a doubt because he didn't fight Kirk Johnson. Indeed, that would be a fairer speculation since at least you don't already have a tally in favor of Lewis in that fantasy match-up.

Likewise, you could suggest that Marciano left a doubt because he didn't face, Jackson, Carter, Pastrano, Satterfield, Valdes, etc etc.

To suggest Lewis left a doubt when he had already beaten Vitali fair and square, having afforded him every opportunity to take the championship, is just more wishful thinking from Vitali fans.

As to the fight itself, I have had this conversation before. The bottom line is that Vitali put up a technically poor performance, which against a world class operator in Lewis (even a version of him that was so out of shape) was his undoing. Irrespective of appearances, Vitali fought like a man who simply didn't understand the circumstances he was in.

Lewis was ready for the taking but Vitali's game was not mature enough to take advantage (and I don't believe it ever reached a level that could have), getting carried away with his early successes - for what reason I do not know. It was clear Lewis wasn't going anywhere but Vitali didn't get the memo it seems, maintaining his strident assault, all the while leaving himself open, maintaining a range that even a dog slow and flat-footed Lewis was able to close and catch Vitali with the better quality work.

When Vitali received the cut at the beginning of the third, he continued to press on without adjustment and just slug it out with Lewis. The upshot of his approach was considerable punishment to the head leading to substantial facial damage. Everyone must have foreseen the inevitability of what was to come - except Vitali.

Lewis had, from the outset, whilst being outworked, delivered the better and more damaging punches, more accurately and with half the output. Lewis was simply the superior practitioner and the dreams of Vitali fans depend on an even less fit and under-trained Lewis for a rematch. I don't like those odds for Klitschko but it's academic as is any speculative bout that Lewis might have entertained had he not retired.

Vitali's role in all of this had always been a stepping stone for Lewis towards a rematch with Tyson. Having fulfilled his contractual requirements and, once it became clear that the rematch with Tyson would never happen, there was no need for Lewis to continue.

 

https://tss.ib.tv/boxing/articles-of-2003/1172-lewis-vs-klitschko-ii-why-it-will-happen
articles like the one above were practically everywhere. The Klitschko-Lewis rematch was the most desired fight at the turn of 2003/2004, but over time it was forgotten about only the image of a bloody Vitalij. Today it is said that Lewis left as a champion, but that was not the case back then.

 

Take a look at their quality of opposition. Lewis doesn’t even get near losing a fight if he had Klitschko’s quality of adversary.

 

Do you think Rahman and McCall were better than Vitali?

 

They were certainly no worse, though you would probably say they achieved less. What both had was the power to put Lewis out though, despite being drastically his inferior. Klitschko isn’t close to the fighter Lewis is, and lacks the type of punch to get himself a lucky victory.

 

Maybe we can try again? Which of Lewis's winning margins do you think are significantly better than wins against Bean, Larry Donald, K Johnson, Arreola, Gomez and Peter? Which Vitali defeats do you consider Lewis' defeat against McCall and Rahman?

 

A

Ruddock
Golota
Holyfield (I)
Grant
Tua

B

Byrd

 

Marciano but there was nothing wrong with either.

People would have loved to see Lewis-Vitali II, but he didn't owe it to Vitali or anyone else.

 

No great fighter should retire until he loses to three cans in a row.

 

Both retired at the right time as it pertained to their individual styles and likely longevity - Rocky at age 32 and Lewis at age 37, getting on for age 38.

Lewis won his last fight, leaving no unanswered questions.

It’s simply a false mental construct of some fans who view Lewis as ducking a rematch.

Lewis was past peak and deteriorating in physical and mental terms (the latter in respect of declining dedication and focus) -

That each successive fight would become that much tougher for Lewis, (the opponent notwithstanding), was a given - as reflected by many Champs who took their viability to the wire, with some unfortunately going beyond that line, fighting on for too long and ultimately losing.

So, of course, as Champions fade, fights become tougher - so there has to be a time to call it quits - and there will always be a “last” opponent who might’ve given the Champ some trouble he might not have experienced before - due to the very fact of the Champ’s deteriorations.

Fighters aren’t trapped in some Twilight Zone nightmare that demands that they keep fighting until they lose - there comes a time to get out - and both Rocky and Lennox prudently exercised their rights to get out when they did - without any specific avoidance being attached to their decisions.

 

No great fighter should have to retire until they lose to three cans in a row.

 

The opinions of over-excited scribes do not translate into a realistic financial forecast and certainly do not explain your assertion that this would have been Lewis's biggest ever money fight. There was a lot of talk like this. Loose talk. But what was it based on?

I'd bet money that De La Hoya/Mosley II made significantly bigger money than Lewis/Klitschko II could have.

But this is by the by. I asked if you knew how much money was made by Lewis and Tyson for their fight. I assume you realize that, at the time, Lewis/Tyson set a new record for revenue generated from a PPV event?

Once you realize the scale of the gap between a Tyson rematch and Vitali rematch, and take into consideration that the former was the only fight keeping Lewis in the sport, his retirement makes perfect sense.

Lewis has always had his detractors. Most of them these days are pained VK fans. There's nothing new there.

But the hopes of a Vitali rematch were dashed way before Lewis officially retired.

The truth is, once Lewis announced he wasn't fighting for the remainder of 2003, his retirement was pretty much on the cards. When the WBC set a deadline, forcing Lewis to make a decision, he soon afterwards made public his decision, well in advance of that deadline.

As an exercise, I looked up reports on Lewis's retirement. The first one I found opened as follows:

The Los Angeles Times

Los Angeles, California
Sat, Feb 14, 2004
Page 48


"Lewis Looks Back, Ahead (excerpt)

Now that his career in the ring is over,
the heavyweight champion is seeking
new challenges

By Steve Springer
Times Staff Writer

This content is protected

"


No. Back then, Lewis was viewed as leaving as Champion.

The disgruntled few - consisting of Vitali worshippers and those who'd happily see a man fight until he needs a live-in nurse to support his day-to-day existence - had/have nothing to complain about.

Lewis had paid his dues and walked away from what he referred to as "the drug of this sport that lures you back. There's always somebody else to beat, always a challenge."

Instead, he got out, and deservedly so.

 

TKO6

 

I think the question is hard to answer because it is too speculative. Nobody knows how both would have fared in further fights (motivation?, opponent?). The next fight could be one too many. So I say both retired at the right time. Maybe Lennox Lewis pushed the limits a bit more.

 

let me understand this. A.Vitali returns to the age of 37, after a 4-year break, he easily beats the current WBC warned for No. 2 in boxing, who has never been on the floor but for you it is more impressive to beat Grant, who turned out to be a product of electricity and who has never he didn't come close to any title...
B Defeat due to injuries in a fight with one of the best HWs of that time Byrd, whom Vitali beat hard enough and had a high lead in points, is presented rather than being knocked out after a short fight by a guy who was considered an exclusive yourneyman and known for his sparrings with the former famous ?
I would like you to explain this, Ney