Past Heavyweights Who Beat Usyk

Usyk is unquestionably an ATG. He has accomplished far more and has a far greater resume than Mike Tyson by a huge amount.
You can take Tyson and a whole lot of others off the ATG list if you aren't putting Usyk on there. That'll be one tiny list though.

It's always great when a modern boxer achieves something exceptional and old fans and fans of very particular leanings come out to try and tear them down.

Not even gonna bother with these hypothetical matchups. All I know is Usyk has the skills, smarts and stamina to mix it up with anyone from any era.

 

Tyson beat.

Holmes
Spinks
Bruno
Ruddock
Tucker
Gollotta
Berbick
pinklin thomas
tony tubbs

Not to mention a whole host of very solid top contenders, like bone crusher smith, , Biggs. carl williams

How on earth is usyks resume even as good let alone far greater? Even suggesting Usyks resume is comparable is an insult to tysons body of work. Tyson beat 8 world champions.

 

Erm, no, but if that is what you took from my post, there is little I can do about it. Boxing isn't about who beat who, it is a metric used by many, but its a really unreliable one usually only used to prop up an already held opinion. I am in a minority here, I don't actually rate Usyk at heavyweight, certainly in an ATG list. But his blend of attributes make him awful for Foreman. Brilliant feet, brilliant chin, great engine, physically strong. He wouldn't be bullied, he wouldn't be knocked out, and to use his own words, he wouldn't leave Foreman alone. But, and this is the big but, that is only my opinion. But to clarify, I don't think Usyk beats Foreman because he beat AJ, who was made for him, and Fury, but because styles make fights and his style is all wrong for Foreman, the young one or the old one. Thanks for your reply man, intersting to chat.

 

There is nothing to suggest anyone in history beats him.

People use his 2nd fight at HW as an argument that some would beat him, I could make a counter argument and say why Usyk schools any of the HW in history based on some of their less than stellar performances. At their best Usyk would hold his own against anyone

 

I would argue nothing suggests he beats dozens and dozens of HW's in history. Having close decisions over obese Fury and AJ, is not good evidence he beats 100 HW's from the past.

 

Foreman would walk usyk down and knock him out. Usyk would not be able to keep him off or take the power. You saw in the 5th round Fury had lots of success when he came forward and let his hands go. Problem was he could only do that occasionally. Foreman would do that every round.

 

Could make an argument for a prime tyson fury tbh. No argument that usyks the better fighter at this stage. But really what we,re putting up against the best heavyweights ever is an out of prime usyk fighting well above his natural weight at 38 years old.

Says a lot about how good usyk is tbh. But plenty beat him basing it off what we have to base it off....a 38 year old who,s past prime fighting 20 lbs above his best weight.

In fairness to fury its a version a lot more static who,s been through the mill. Usyk would always give him trouble and is the much better fighter in terms of lb for lb. But fury of the klitchko fight is a different proposition. Constantly on the move....much fresher. Much better/ stronger jab...better head movement. Mentally on it. In between that hes had mental breakdowns. Massive drink and drug problems. Legs slowed massively. Huge weight gain. 3 punishing fights against wilder etc. Fighting 30 lbs above his own best weight in his best fight.

Cant give usyk anymore plaudits for what hes done tbh. Best achievement in boxing for years and he would compete with absolutely anyone....but theres an element of kidding ourselves on here unless in the hypothetical we can make usyk a natural heavyweight bang in his prime which changes the whole debate.

We,ve all called joshua a busted flush. The same guy that pushed usyk to the brink at one point in the fight...not because usyks not great just that hes giving away lots of natural advantages which is pushing him. A lot of them fights have been hard for usyk. Chisora gave him trouble. Again not because usyks not great but hes giving away a lot of advantages. Ones that better guys than chisora would make him pay for.....at 38 years old fighting 20 lbs above his best weight after a long career.

I think the hypothetical would be the more realistic debate. If usyk was a natural heavyweight with his attributes and speed in his prime.....would any past heavy beat him. I still say a couple would but not many.

 

lol...Usyk beats all those guys...Not in their league? Put the crackpipe down...

 

I can't ever go against Ali. The GOAT. Pretty similar fighters except I think Ali just had that extra edge in speed, power, toughness, and that extra trick in his arsenal.

Liston was a brutal powerful MF but I think Usyk had enough skill to get the decision here.

Frazier's relentless style would be a nightmare for Usyk IMO, I think Joe gets the decision here.

I think Usyk is a terrible match up for Foreman, he hated boxers and movers like Usyk. I back Usyk against any version of Foreman.

Holmes is a tough one, 50/50 for me. Larry's jab is unlike anything Usyk has ever seen. Toss up for me.

Mike Tyson might be a tad overrated by some but his detractors forget that he was truly the undisputed champion and beat everyone in front of him. Mike was very fast both in hand and footwork and was unpredictable, I think he may be one of the only HW's ever able to stop Usyk and I think Mike would do that in the early rounds with a nasty uppercut or a body shot.

Prime Riddick Bowe is underrated on here, unlike Holyfield - Usyk is disciplined enough to keep it on the outside, but Bowe had a great jab and he knew how to dig inside with his inside game and uppercuts. Bowe had so much in his punch arsenal on top of being so heavy handed, he was a very complete overall fighter. I think Bowe would have stopped Usyk in the late rounds.

Holyfield a very hard one. Holyfield is unlike Usyk has ever fought, skillful, fast, tough and crafty. I feel Usyk struggles a little more against these type of master tough old-school fighters who can deal with boxers and movers well than the likes of AJ and Fury. I think Holyfield would get the decision against Usyk but I can see the argument for a toss up.

Prime Lennox also I think too complete for Usyk and he would stop him with an uppercut.

I back Usyk against Vitali as I think Usyk is skilled enough in the long-run to get the decision. Same goes against Wladimir and I can see Usyk stopping Wladimir with a big counter.

 

I disagree

OK. Let's say you're right. Let's say that Usyk has accomplished more than Mike Tyson. But I still rank Mike Tyson way above Usyk

When I rank fighters, to me, No. 1 should be better than No. 2, and 2 should be better than No. 3 and on that basis Tyson is better than Usyk. Otherwise, if we are going to use your accomplishments scale then Dariusz Michalczewski is an ATG, one of the best to ever do it, coz he's only 2nd to Joe Louis in the number of title defences.

Usyk beats most heavy weights, but Mike isn’t one. Probably the worst match up for a Usyk type and I rate Usyk extremely highly within this era of Heavyweights, he is the most accomplished active fighter in the sport of boxing. But that does not mean he can suddenly start bashing up super elite all-time great Heavyweights like Mike Tyson'.

Hell, Even post-prison Tyson spanks the Ukrainian. Too much power, too much aggression.

Usyk likes to control distance and Tyson has quick feet and closes the distance very fast, while not coming straight in but bobbing and weaving changing levels. Usyk won't have the control that he likes to have and Usyk's use of angles will be negated by Tyson's squared up almost ambidextrous stance. Tysons style and speed/agility/athleticism would be too much for Usyk. Usyk is better off with someone who will try to box him conventionally.

Micheal Spinks was essentially the Usyk of the 80's 'Mike Tyson blasted him out in 91 seconds'. Prime Mike was a force of nature.

Another thing that is a knock against Usyk is that he hasn't schooled, dominated, KO-ed or destroyed anyone at the elite level.

Yes he beat Fury and AJ x2, yes he beat Dubois, but they were very competitive fights, meaning he has not separated himself as WAY better than his rivals and this was true as a cruiser.

All his fights at elite level at cruiser were hard fought points win, and you can't really say "but he's fighting much bigger guys" because so was Mike Tyson, but Tyson was killing guys at elite level.

Another thing about Tyson is his durability, you had to beat the sh*t out of him to beat him. You couldn't take him out with one punch. Whether at the peak of his form or even in the latter stages of his career, Tyson's opponents were forced to unleash heavy sustained bombardment in order to deck him momentarily. It took literally everything for his opponents to force the stoppage,

And Usyk has not really shown that he can fight the kind of fight Holyfield did vs Mike Tyson. And even that version of Tyson, in my opinion, would just beat Usyk.

Considering how Usyk handles body shots I think Tyson would decimate him.

 

Holmes- 38 years old
Spinks- 33 year old pumped up LHW with bad knees
Bruno- Bruno
Ruddock- Guy who was beaten by Dave Jaco and Tommy Morrison
Tucker- Drug addict
Gollotta- mentally deficient quitter
Berbick- Solid but unspectacualt
pinklin thomas- Drug addict
tony tubbs- fat drug addict

I am not going to say that this was terrible overall, but let's not go overboard, here.

 

And Tyson KTFO most of his opponents.

And how good is AJ really? He is like a Frank Bruno level roughly speaking. And Tyson Fury is roughly Vitali Klitschko level if we talk all time rankings.

So if you say that in the 90s there was this fighter with 23 fights and his best wins are 2 wins over Bruno and 2 wins over Vitali Klitschko…..

Where would you rank a fighter like that?

 

You tell me to calm down, yet you have overegged statements such as "It would take a much more special fighter than Usyk to eclipse Ali at heavyweight" and "but Ali does everything better than him and is simply far more talented."

That reduces just how good Usyk is AND puts on the rose-tinted glasses a bit IMO - There are not many more special fighters in history than Usyk that are better in single departments let alone the sum of the parts - Ali might be one, which I recognised in my original post given I had him number 3 in list of past heavyweights who could beat Usyk! If noted this before in other posts, but IMO if you created a "top trump" deck with the traditional boxing categories, Usyk would be very close to the top overall score, with only power (and his power is not as feather-fist as folks like to note) being his 'weakness'. Usyk fairly obviously hit's near full marks in Ring IQ, Footwork and Stamina - he is blessed at being elite/exceptional nearly across the board and I'd also give him near top marks in Intangibles as well.

At the level of 'creme de la creme' over the top statements like 'far more talented' is just a bit thick IMO, but I do appreciate that Ali is an icon and these days it's heresy to suggest anyone from the modern game might have beaten him. Ali was super talented, but he also had flaws. What flaws does Usyk exhibit that Ali could exploit, apart from a supposed weakness to the body (with little evidence of that against Fury in the 2nd). Sure, Usyk has never fought a fighter like Ali (there haven't been any since which is the point of these hypotheticals!), but - and this is key IMO - Ali NEVER fought anyone in his career remotely like Usyk either.

I'd also state in this that at heavyweight, if you put the guys in my list into a league / round robin tourney where all have to fight each other, NONE are coming out without a loss, and ALL will have a loss, especially if (given this is all hypothetical) that each match-up was a 3-fight trilogy.

So when I say I'd favour Usyk over Ali, I would additionally qualify - I'd take Usyk to come out 2-1 over the 3 fights; ergo Ali would beat him once. And some of it may be recency bias, some of it may be that I just love Usyk as a fighter in and OUT of the ring - but I also know what I see in the ring and Usyk is IMO just as special as the ATG at the weight.

Some additional observations on Usyk that bear on these discussions:-

+ Still never been down, or even seriously in trouble of being stopped in any pro fight
+ IMO still the closest decision he has been in was Breidis (which I had 115-113 Usyk), and he went through the gears in the championship rounds to pull that one out
+ Have we seen the absolute best that Usyk can be? Has he really been pushed to his absolute 100% best? I think we have seen flashes of it (when he put Joshu firmly in his place round 10 of the 2nd fight), but he's not really had a dance partner in his prime to really push him IMO. (e.g. Ali had Frazier, Foreman - those fights elevated Ali so much - even in the Frazier defeat!). Arguably Usyk had this post-prime with Joshua and Fury, but not to the same extend, and Usyk already well in decline)

Final thing to bear on this - and I do appreciate that this really annoys some purists / older fans (me included), but the progression of society and technological advancements usually means that athletes improve over time, both in terms of ceiling, but training methods, nutrition etc - however, Boxing seems to be the only sport where no one generally acknowledges this factor - admittedly, Boxing is not the 'golden age' of popularity that it was and fighters today maybe don't have the opponents they used to and they don't fight as often but still. Most tennis players accept that Djokovic eclipses Sampras (who in turn eclipsed Borg), similarly that Ronaldo and Messi eclipsed Pele and Maradona in football (soccer for u yanks!) And that REALLY bugs me as I don't like Ronaldo and Pele was my favourite growing up, but it's fairly obvious to a viewer than Messi and Ronaldo are well beyond Pele in abilities. But boxing seems to be exempt from these facets in most folks view and I think that is rose-tinted spectacles for sure.

 

Prime Tyson is all wrong for Usyk. The peek a boo style is not as heavily affected by the southpaw stance as traditional stances go, and Tyson’s speed of foot and hand would be a nightmare for Usyk. Tyson’s smaller squat nature would have him on top of Usyk all night slipping in and using two handed combos. I think it would be a rather one sided fight and a likely stoppage win for Mike.
I also think Wlad is a bad matchup for Usyk. His shotgun jab and mastery of distance would be difficult for Usyk. He’d tie Usyk up on inside and control the range from the outside. A 39 and 41 year old Wlad lost competitive fights to better versions of Joshua and Fury that Usyk fought and both gave Usyk solid fights. Prime Wlad I think wins on points or a late stoppage.
Conversely I Think Usyk is a nightmare for Lennox. Lewis never faced a southpaw of note and fought at a time with 3 good ones floating around. He also didn’t face many elite boxer mover types during his day. Lewis looked great against sluggers and flat foots. But someone that moves and Jabs like Usyk would pose problems for Lewis and his average foot work. Limited Bruno was taking rounds off Lewis with his jab before he gassed mid fight. Usyk’s stamina would dance all night.
Usyk’s speed would also trouble Vitali I think his feet are too slow and reaction time would be severely tested trying to time Usyk. I see it playing out similar to the Fury fights.

 

Peralta was only stopped 3 times in 116 fights. Foreman was one of them. Uysk’s chin is no where near as proven.