Do you still view Fury as an all time Head to Head fighter?

When exactly, and by whom was he rated as an ATG fighter?

 

I think on his best day he probably sneaks in as a head to head atg. You,d expect....lewis, ali, foreman, holmes, tyson etc to beat him and a slightly younger wlad possibly.

Probably generous tbh more due to the fact i still think the fighters of the past we,re better. He,d have his hands full with say mike tysons competition who for me we,re a lot better than giving credit for.

In years to come tho he,ll be more discredited than his namesake mike tyson in an atg sense. Mike tysons prime was about 4 years and all downhill from there whereas tyson furys was lengthy but more sporadic.

In a career sense...his inconsistancy and cv will go against him massively imo. It will keep him from ever breaking the top ten and ever being put infront of say wlad who had consistancy even if his best wins we,re worse than fury,s.

Fury as a head to head should be regarded as a head to head atg tho. He had it all but power on his best night.

Not many will agree but i put him around the same level as usyk in terms of all time great head to head at heavyweight. For me this is defo a shopworn version of fury usyks beating. Much slower feet. 30 lbs above his best weight. Much slower reaction time etc.

Not taking anything away from usyk because i cant be a bigger fan of his tbh. Deserves all the plaudits going.

 

Thank you, sir! I humbly accept your correct assessment of myself. I try to be low-key, but true genius has its way of revealing itself, and you rightly picked up on it

 

Stylistically yes he would stack up in any era.. he would take losses but I believe he could compete with anyone at his best.. hes very tricky when hes switched on.. I'm actually just watching the fight again now and it's really high class stuff, very technical from both men, it's a pleasure to watch.. there's no shame in losing 2 competitive fights to Usyk. I think Fury has done a lot of damage to himself because of his big mouth and contradictory nature.. ppl dont like him.. but if we strip away all that and just watch his fights he's a bit of freak & a very good boxer.

 

Top 20 ATG or top 20 HW?

 

I never ever considered him to be anywhere near an all time great

 

He has had a fantastic career for being a decent fighter. Some folk on this forum elevated him miles beyond where he will be remembered in years to come!!

 

After just actually watching the fight. **** yeah. That was a great performance by Fury, he won that.

 

Comfortably beating Derek Chisora is the benchmark for h2h greatness? Hilarious. I guess that makes David Haye the GOAT

 

He's a top 20-25 guy. Let's see how he does against Joshua.

 

He might just sneak in on his best day, but not consistently.

Slightly younger Wlad would have beaten him.

Prime Wlad would've beaten him comfortably.

Heck, old Wlad only just lost to him and arguably still had to be on a bad day to do so... Which is why Wlad wanted the rematch badly and Fury really didn't, perhaps?

If anything the opposite of this is the only way I can see an argument for him...

In the sense that fighters now are bigger, tougher, nutrition and sports science is on a totally different level, etc.

I'm not sure I really buy it, though, even though there's certainly some truth in it - I'm not convinced it's enough to clear the bar of having done it in a weak era and having beat so little of what was on offer.

The difference between Usyks best win and Fury's best win is:
1) Usyk was also old when he beat an older opponent.
2) Usyk won far more clearly
3) Usyk had the balls to rematch, and won clearly again

And then also...
4) Usyk also beat his next best opponent clearly twice
5) Usyk's second best opponent (probably Joshua, though in hindsight resumes may leave Joshua being seen as the better win) was miles better than the fraud that sits second on Fury's list of wins.

Despite a very short run at heavy, Usyks got way more depth... Fury isn't really comparable to him, IMHO.

 

Agreed. No shame in losing two close fights to the best in the division.

 

His combination of size, movement, ring IQ and ability to recover even from the heaviest knockdowns, yeah make him a handful against anyone. The losses to Usyk doesn't alter that.

 

Just think if Fury keeps losing. He's arguably lost his last three fights, one of which to an MMA fighter. If Fury gets KOed by Joshua or someone else his legacy is over.

 

Regarding usyks head to head with fury. The reality is usyks just had 4 tough fights against a guy that lost to andy ruiz and dubois pretty conclusively and fury who,s now himself fighting 30 lbs above his best weight who,s legs have pretty much gone with a lot slower reaction times who went up to 24 stone and sat about for years doing nothing. This version of fury isnt really comparable with the best version of fury on his best night add to that usyks really a cruiserweight himself fighting well above his own optimum weight at 38 years old.

No argument that usyks the much better overall fighter he,ll go down as one of the very best. The complete opposite to fury in terms of career accomplishments where tysons been all over the place mostly down to having pretty serious mental health problems tbh.

On their best night tho there about the same at heavyweight. Not many will agree with that. But the reality is we need to judge usyk at 38 years old fighting about 30 lbs above his own optimum weight. The way we,re trying to rate him is if he was a natural heavyweight.....in his prime.