Usyk is only behind Floyd Mayweather in the last 20 years, surpassing Manny Pacquiao

Floyd is nowhere near Usyk. Too much ducking and A-side cheating from Fraud. Avoided all serious threats, particularly Paul Williams who would have easily dismantled little Floyd.

 

Inoue is probably quite likely to go above him given that he's not miles off as it is and has many years to go.

Crawford I think probably won't be. But he's still there and fighting and it isn't beyond the realm of possibility although he would still have quite a bit to do

 

Anything can happen.

But as of right now, they’ve not done enough.

 

Floyd is an ATG and ranked Top 25 ever. Thats an incredible feat. It is possible Usyk could wind up AHEAD of Floyd in ATG rankings. Usyk fought opponents who were heavier, taller, longer, and younger. Shame we didnt get to see more of Usyk but I think we'll see maybe 1 more fight before he hangs it up.

As much as I love Crawford I dont think he has any chance to rank above Floyd unless he were to dominate Canelo at 168 and that just isnt likely at all. Crawford could potentially win a squeaky close decision but a domination just isnt happening and if it did it would come from Canelo.

Inoue has a real pathway to ranking above Floyd and possibly even Usyk. Champ in 4 weight classes and undisputed twice and he's young enough to try for undisputed in an unheralded 3rd weight class where he'll be both undersized and older. Very impressive stuff.

I am not forgetting how great Floyd was. Champ in 5 weight classes but never achieved undisputed, never beat a prime opponent (not DLH, nor Manny, nor Mosley, nor Cotto, nor Canelo, etc.). He had very favorable judging in JLC1 and shouldve got a draw in Maidana 1. He used catchweights when they favored him and renegotiated catchweights when they disfavored him (JMM). He used OSDT when it benefited him and required opponents to wear his choice of gloves. Even with all that Floyd is Top 25 E V E R, but I keep all that in mind when I compare what Usyk and Inoue have done and are doing.

 

Nobody surpasses Manny

Nobody

 

There's little evidence of ducking for most of his career. Who were all these guys he supposedly ****ed?

 

Depends on how you judge, if you're judging greatness on achievements then Usyk is top 5. If you're judging on ability ? Then Usyk top 10 but more close to 10 than 1 for best fighters of the last 20 years.

I do think there has to be an element of No 1, would beat No2, No2 would beat 3, coz if you're gonna go purely by achievements then Dariusz Michalczewski is an ATG coz he's only 2nd to Joe Louis in terms of most title defences.

For me ? I don't think any fighter comes close to prime Mayweather in terms of ability and achievements of the last 20 yrs

I'm talking this Mayweather, pretty boy, the young Mayweather, people forget that the young Mayweather was killing elite guys

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Mayweather won his first world title in 1998 against Genaro Hernandez (RIP) then had his last world title fight in 2017 against Andre Berto

That's 19 years of fighting elite world-class fighters and never losing and no major controversies. Usyk doesn't have anywhere near close to that.

Another knock I'll give Usyk, in that he doesn't have any ass whoopings of elite guys on his CV and that's even as a cruiser. Yes he's undefeated, yes he's a gold medallist at the Olympics, yes he fights much bigger guys

I get it

But a great fighter HAS TO HAVE SOME BEATDOWNS OR SCHOOLINGS OF TOP FIGHTERS ON HIS RESUME.

Usyk doesn't have any.

His two fights against AJ and Fury were super competitive, on another night, that low blow by Triple D might have been called a legal and he would have lost. Against Bellew he was behind on points when Bellew was stopped.

An elite level journeyman like Derek Chisora arguably came the closest out of any heavy to beating Uysk. If that had been a draw, don't think anyone would have said that's a bad result.

End of the day, I don't look Usyk and think "WOW.....this guy is incredible"

So my list would be for top 10 fighters of the last 20

1. Floyd
2. Manny
3. Naya Inoue
4. Ward
5. Canelo
6. Beterbiev
7. Calzaghe
8. Usyk
9. Cotto
10. Wlad

I know Inoue is still fighting, but he simply has to be there. He might even move himself further up by the end of his career.

 

First of all, I really enjoy reading your posts.

Even if I don’t agree with everything that you’ve written, your posts are always laid out intelligently, with great reasoning and examples to support your opinions.


Regarding Floyd, he is definitely underrated by many, due to how unlikable he is, and due to some of the things that he’s said and done.

Regarding a comparison between Usyk and Floyd, the first thing that stands out, is that Floyd has fought more than twice as many fighters as a pro, therefore there’s a much bigger group of fights of his to choose from. He simply has a bigger body of work.

Now you say that Usyk has never comprehensively beaten guys like Floyd did. But to that, I’d question just how many guys Floyd genuinely put whoopings on, and the calibre of the opponents, from the 50 fights that he had. Again, you’re also comparing a body of work from 50 fights, to a body of work from only 23 fights, which again, is obviously less than half.

My other counter argument, would be that Usyk has fought much tougher challenges than what Floyd generally did. Usyk fought more prime and dangerous fighters, and with less advantages. Floyd mostly fought lesser challenges, and with a significant reach advantage over most of his opponents.

Floyd easily and impressively beat guys like Gatti, and I’d say that Usyk’s win over Bellew was comparable. Bellew was never great, but a threat to most at CW, and a genuine world level guy.

Personally, Usyk has wowed me. Because he’s a great technician, he cleared a very competitive and strong CW division, before moving up and beating the two best HW’s of this generation, twice each. And he’s done it on the road. Now often do we see such things. So that to me is incredibly impressive.


Now to your rankings.

And this is what is the most interesting thing to me.

Again, I always respect your posts, even if we don’t agree. And if we don’t agree, then that’s cool. That’s what makes the debate so interesting. And of course, it’s very subjective, and we all have different opinions, based upon many different factors.

Now in a fun way, I can tell you for sure, that I absolutely don’t agree with your rankings.


Now my rankings are always mostly based upon ability and the overall strength of the resume and the wins.

They are more important to me than official accolades and title defences.

Simply because a guy may have many, many title defences, or a number of belts from different divisions, but can still have a much lesser resume, than a guy who doesn’t have as many title defences or titles.

Context is the key.


A few examples:

GGG

Crawford

Both exceptional fighters. However through no fault of their own, despite their official accolades, they both don’t have great wins/resumes. And there’s been fighters from their respected divisions, who were just as good, or greater than, but who didn’t have those same official accolades.

Again, we must apply the relevant context.


Now looking at your rankings, I’m genuinely baffled (again, in just a fun way) as to how you have Inoue, Ward Beterbiev and Calzaghe above Usyk.

It baffles me.


Calzaghe wasn’t as skilled, and his group of wins absolutely do not compare to Usyk’s.

Beterbiev is very skilled, but his resume doesn’t compare.

Inoue is tremendously skilled, but his resume also doesn’t compare.

Ward was also very skilled, but his resume also doesn’t compare.


None of those guys were as skilled, where they have equal or superior resumes/wins, and where they took on the same risks/challenges.

Usyk has to be rated higher, in terms of ability, resume/wins and risks taken, all together as a whole package.

He has beaten:

Glawacki
Mchunu
Breidis
Hunter
Bellew
Gassiev
Huck
Chisora
Dubois
AJ
AJ
Fury
Fury

None of those other guys have a group of wins as impressive, irrespective of their number of fights/title wins.

Therefore, IMHO, he simply has to rank higher.

I would even say that he has a better group of actual wins than what Canelo has. Not overall resume. But specifically just the wins. Canelo has had gift wins, and his best wins have come against significantly faded fighters.

I’m sure that it would make for an interesting debate though.


Thanks.

 

TBH, I forget names too easily these days and time seems to be flying. I had RJJ listed then I realized, **** me, 20 years ago now is about the time Roy aged out.

Floyd
Calzaghe
Ward
Canelo
Usyk


I like Usyk quite a bit but other dudes have great records against other p4p rated guys so I place them higher.

Floyd has the all time p4p vs p4p best record.

Joe did whoop two of the other top p4p rated guys from his era.

The Kovy fans crying about Ward is such bull****. Boxing fans are assholes man. With Ward I be a fan of his dirty boxing, youse give me ****. With Fury I be a fan of his dirty boxing, youse act like I am crazy and Fury's clean. I think their nationalities and ethnicities have more to do with that than anything that happened in the ring.

Canelo's done very well, I almost had it go Usyk then Hopkins because people be sleeping on old man Hop's run but Canelo has done pretty damn well.


Honestly Floyd and Joe stand out more to me thand any other fighters. In p4p terms.


Eye test and that sort of ****, Usyk's easily in my top five. I really like watching his weird style and do not think anyone at any weight can beat him. I just don't think "but when I watch him I know in my heart he's greater than his resume shows" in any form of verbiage is a very good argument. It's childish at best.

 

Both Calzaghe and Ward’s resume does not in any way compare to Usyk’s.

And you’ve missed out Manny, who also ranks higher than Ward and Calzaghe.

 

There are others who have surpassed Mayweather, and it's not just Usyk...

 

I'm not trying to argue perse, I know y'all love to do that on this forum so I'm trying to preface this. I'd love to hear you out but you didn't really say anything other than you disagree and allude to a reason why.

I straight up named Roy and Hop, If you think Usyk has better p4p wins then cool bro but just telling me that begs who. Tyson Fury the p4p king that looks better on a p4p resume than RJJ? AJ over Hopkin on p4p? Breidis over RJJ or Hop? I'm not even saying no they ain't, just who. Who on Usyk's resume are you proposing is a better win than Hopkins let alone Roy?

Same for Ward, I don't really think he's that strong a p4p claim, it's really just Kovalev ... but who are you telling me sons that move?

I did not miss Manny Pacquiao. I disagree with you. Manny gets a five fight win streak together and y'all lose your ****. He lost, all the time, got heaps and heaps of gifts, and for all the crying y'all do about Mayweather's timing your very forgiving of Manny's ability to beat Mayweather's leftovers in a harder closer match. I strongly feel Money, Joe, Ward, Canelo, and Usyk have proven more than Manny even tried to do. I left plenty of names of men who moved weight divisions off, not just Manny. You see no Oscar either.

 

I have stated clearly, that Joe Calzaghe and Andre Ward have nowhere near the resume that Usyk has.

Also, your post does not include any context.


Where you have mentioned Roy and Hopkins, I’m assuming that you’re referring to Joe’s wins over them?

Please clarify this.

If you are, then we simply have to note, that Joe barely beat Hopkins who was 43, and that Roy Jones literally hadn’t had a top level win in 5 years, where he was about to turn 40.

Again, context.

You don’t rate a win on name value.

You rate a win based upon the quality of the opposition.

So Joe’s win over Roy meant nothing. Roy was no longer a world level fighter at that point.


Joe Calzaghe spent the majority of his career defending a low level WBO belt, against mostly non world level fighters.

Out of his 46 fights, less than a dozen of them were world level guys, where non of them were prime greats, and where most of them were B level.


Joe did not achieve what Usyk has done. Usyk has cleared out two divisions.

Joe did not have more ability than Usyk.

Joe’s resume/wins do not compare to Usyk’s in terms of overall quality and risk.

Therefore, it is illogical to rank Joe Calzaghe higher.


Andre Ward was a great fighter, with great wins over Kovalev.

However, he also didn’t possess more ability than Usyk, his achievements aren’t as impressive, and his overall resume is just nowhere near as strong.

Go and do a comparison.

On ability, achievements and quality of resume/wins, Andre Ward can also not rank higher.


Regarding Manny, what you have written is absolutely laughable.

Look at who he fought.

Look at who he beat.

Look at how outsized he was, and the challenges that he took on.

Look at what he achieved.


It is an absolute joke that you haven’t listed him, yet you have a guy like Calzaghe over him.

Again, Calzaghe never beat a prime ATG, and his best win was an SD over a 43 year old Hopkins.

Calzaghe hasn’t got the resume or the achievements, to out rank Manny.

What the hell did Calzaghe prove?


Regarding Manny fighting Floyd’s leftovers, that was just circumstances, not calculated moves.

However, he fought better/fresher versions of both Cotto and JMM.

He also tested himself to the absolute max.

And he took on the kinds of challenges that Joe and Floyd wouldn’t have taken on.


Joe happily fought mostly non world level fighters for a decade.

And Floyd retired with safe fights against Berto and an MMA fighter.


Regarding Oscar, he was a great fighter who fought prime ATG’s/HOF’s, who also pushed himself to the max.

He would also be far more deserving of a place ahead of someone like Calzaghe.

 

Yes, yes you did very clearly say you disagree with Joe and Dre, but you didn't say why so the **** you want me to do with that opening statement? Repeat our conversation? You need a recap bud? I just struggle to see your point.


What do you mean context? My post IS the context. You responded to me, not me to you. You decided you disagree with something I said and then proceeded to be mysterious as to why you disagree. Don't blame me for the lack of parameters in this conversation, know your role; I can't possibly be held to the lack of context here because you responded to me.

Yes, I said i rated based on who has p4p wins on their record. Joe has two. I named them. You cried about the ranking but do I see any p4p worth name being presented as a counter point? no I do not. So, the **** is going on here? I don't know, some jabroni has issue with my ratings but lacks the cognitive capacity to actually voice their opinion.

Ward same story as Joe. You're crying because I rated him over Usyk and telling Usyk has better wins. Who these better wins are? **** if I know. You, who whines about my lack of context, have yet to produce a single name that's meant to a better win. You, who cried about the lack of context, just simply allude to Usyk having better wins. What the ****? Is your skull flat?

In regards to Manny:

Has to be one of the most clear cut bias statements I have ever read on any forum. What are you saying? Can you read yourself right now?


Buddy I'm just going to tell you straight. You're clearly not worth the time I have given you let alone any more time on top of that. Being stupid and bias is one thing, you can't even manage a conversation.

 

Floyd from 130-140 was up there with prime Roy as one of the best fighters ever. It's ludicrous to me that some people think Paul Spadafora would have had a chance against him.