Is Usyk an ATG at Heavyweight?

I don’t even mind the argument that CW opponents are actually HW in old times. But then make a pick. Those either count as Heavyweight fights but then the CW titles don’t count. Or he is Undisputed CW Champion but then those are not Heavyweight fights. It can’t be both at the same time. That’s double dipping.

 

I agree with the first part, but there seems to be a tendency to over-value that win over Chisora. Chisora was in full on gate-keeper mode at that stage of his career. It was a solid win to demonstrate Usyk belonged in the top 15 conversation, but nothing more. It was the WBO rules that allowed Usyk a direct line to Joshua. Dubois > Chisora > Witherspoon, but none of them were considered top 10 fighters when they fought Usyk. He really only has the wins over Joshua and Fury at the moment as significant bouts at HW. Though I do consider them Great wins.

 

Ok troll. Wladimir has obviously beaten your hero at some point.

How the hell is he clearly not an ATG heavyweight? The man was unified champion and ruled the division for a decade.

You Klitschko haters need to move on and get a new gig.

 

Correct the Dubois win looks better with hindsight granted but he wasn't actually ranked in the top 10 when he fought Usyk to my knowledge. And I do recall alot of people were saying Dubois was a very undeserving challenger at that time, considering he was coming off a less than stellar performance in which he got floored 3 times and got a hometown stoppage. But to be fair to Usyk it wasn't his fault because he was being given the run around by Fury at that time.

But still realistically Usyk has only beaten 2 ranked Heavyweights and yet people want to say he's top 10 Heavyweight of all time ? I'm sorry but that's utter nonsense.

I'm not denying Usyk isn't a great for his overall achievements of course he is but are people actually trying to say he's one of the best 10 Heavyweights of all time for beating 2 ranked Heavyweights ?

I'm sorry he hasn't got nowhere enough depth to be top 10.

 

He was WBA regular champion...effectively the #1 contender.

Looking back is says #8 WBO, and, for some reason, #7 WBA, despite being regular.

 

There was more to that story. The WBA did away with their ‘regular title’ then reinstated it right away and had Dubois fight some bum to make him WBA regular Champion. Or something along those lines. It looked totally fabricated.

 

Yeah, it was something like that.

WBA was being pressured to do away with their regular title by the boxing media. So, they announced they were going to try to resolve the issue by having the regular belt holders fight the super champions. Knowing this was maybe in the pipe-line a few promoters tried to get their hands on the WBA regular title. First, Don King screwed Manual Charr out of the belt by messing around with his VISA application in a match-up with Trevor Bryan. Then with Charr stripped, the WBA allowed Don King to match Bryan with Stiverne for the vacant belt. Bryan won the title.

At the same time, after Dubois took a set-back loss to Joyce on the WBO ladder, Warren redirected Dubois to the WBA ladder. Seeing a quick route to a title shot, he got the WBA to somehow match Dubois with Bryan. There were some issues with Don King not paying Dubois, but basically Dubois cut through Bryan like a knife through warm butter.

Thus, Dubois became regular title holder and mandatory to Usyk. Queensberry tried to maybe build some legitimacy to Dubois by matching him with former cruiserweight Kevin Lerena. But in the first round Lerena dropped Dubois repeatedly. They ended the round early to save Dubois. Then strangely Lerena didn't pounce on a clearly injured Dubois in the next round. I think the round after that, Dubois unloaded on Lerena after the bell, and the British referee quickly waved off the fight and declared Dubois the winner.

So, understandably, a lot of people were pissed that a clearly undeserving Dubois was getting a title shot at Usyk via the WBA before Hrgovic (IBF) and Dubois' conqueror, Joe Joyce (WBO).

But as to his low ranking, I think it was maybe Bakole who was actually near the top of the WBA ladder. I can't remember exactly, but Dubois at #7 sounds about right. Actually, it should have probably been Helenius that fought for the title, as his two wins over Kownacki were considered WBA title eliminators

It was all a bit of a **** show. Then after Dubois lost to Usyk, the WBA regular was meant to be disolved. Only they had to deal with Charr who they allowed Don King to screw over. Charr threatened legal action, and so they matched him with Lucas Browne and then eventually Pulev for the vacant reinstated WBA regular belt.


Urgh... that was unexpectedly A LOT to type out. I better get back to work

 

Thanks for clarifying.

*Dubois not getting paid by Don King must feel like a badge of honor. Makes him look 90s old school.

 

I accidently voted no and I meant to click yes. The poll won't allow me to change my vote.

 

lol, I wonder why you bother. It’s almost comical.

 

Yes.
Usyk won the title against AJ and then defended it against AJ, Dubois and Fury X2.
That's 4 TITLE DEFENSES.
And it can go on...
Foreman did not defend the title four times in a row, counting both careers; although he claimed the title against: Jose Roman, Savarese, Grimsley, Schultz.
In addition, Usyk is the UNDISPUTED CHAMPION after the era of the Klitschko brothers, and after the Fury era.
And not only that - Usyk is UNDEFEATED.

Usyk is definitely HW ATG, and you can freely put him on HW ATG No. 30.
But Usyk is undoubtedly HW ATG.

 

Dubois faced unknown Cruiserweight Kevin Lerena was floored 3 times and got hometown cooking with the round ending early with alot of people on here saying it was a farce.

Dubois was certainly not even close to a deserving challenger at that time and he only got his shot primarily because Fury was giving Usyk the round around at that time which I have gave Usyk the benefit of the doubt in.

But regardless Usyk has only beaten 2 Heavyweights ranked in the top 10 and I don't think he warrants being anywhere close to the top 10 all time Heavyweight rankings at this time.

@Finkel has gave a much better breakdown of the events during that time.

 

That’s ok I voted yes to give him the benefit of the doubt so we can trade places.

 

Having the WBA belt made him a mandatory. That is the real point.

I didn't say that he was what he is now...he has definitely learned from his losses, and good for him. Bu he was still a highly ranked guy, and its still a hell of a win.