Better resume Ali vs Mayweather

This reads like a bunch of excuses that Mayweather doesn’t require even though he had layoffs and injuries.

Ali was 32 when he beat Foreman. That isn’t passing of the torch territory.

And we both know that you’re shoving the corpse of Archie Moore and a useless at heavyweight Bob Foster into the hall of famers. Nevermind that Norton made it specifically because he beat Ali.

This one isn’t close. Mayweather would be crucified if he lost the biggest fight of his career, lost to a guy with fewer than ten fights, needed a trilogy to narrowly come out ahead of some guy who otherwise would be an average contender, and logged his best wins against a guy who quit with a bad shoulder and another who was too raw to comfortably even do twelve rounds.

Part of growing up is being able to separate fact from feeling.

 

I know I’m very much in the minority but I picked Mayweather. To be clear I love Muhammad Ali and he did more for boxing from a social and cultural perspective than probably any other fighter. But Floyd has too many accolades. The 50-0 record. Title fight record of 26-0. Beating 24 men who were current or former champions. Titles in like 5 weight classes. Both Floyd and Muhammad Ali beat several hall of fame men.. Ali maybe a few more. But there are some who Floyd beat who will likely make it in at some point. Saul Alvarez being one of them.

 

Ali's 1967-1970 was a forced exile. Mayweather's 2008 layoff was a vacation. Mayweather never even left the ring for more than a year, unless you count the gimmick fight with McGregor. They're not the same.

Everyone thought it was the fight that would kickstart Foreman's reign as the next GOAT worthy Heavyweight, and that the win over Ali would cement his status as the generational best.

Arturo Gatti. Useless Welterweight Marquez. Hatton who only has 2 wins over elite fighters who neither were in their prime, and only joined just because he fought Floyd and Pac.

You're right, it isn't close. Ali's is clearly superior. Pacquiao had a bad shoulder just like Liston did, except Liston was coming off the 2 KO1 victories over Patterson, while Pac had gotten KO'd by 39 year old Marquez 2.5 years prior. Regardless of Foreman's stamina issues, he was destroying fighters classes above the likes of Trout. What's next for Floyd ? Corrales ? Verge of retirement Oscar ? Blown up Marquez ? Hatton ? Castillo ? None of them are as good as Ali's 2 wins over Frazier. Ali also has the deeper resume with the more victories over top 10 ranked fighters, it's not close either. It's not as if the likes of Guerrero, Ortiz, Gatti, Baldomir, Maidana, Berto, N'dou, Corley are exactly a better group than Ellis, Quarry, Norton, Bonavena, Terrell, Folley, Lyle and Shavers.

Part of growing up is realising Floyd is not TBE.

 

Gatti was a champion who entered the ring with like fifteen pounds on Floyd. Marquez knocked out the pfp 1 at 147 after the Floyd fight and at an advanced age.

Canelo became the face of boxing after fighting Floyd and Foreman became a guy who lost to Jimmy Young and hallucinated in the showers.

Stop digging your hole. Put your feelings inside it and cover it back up.

 

On the verge of retirement and not as good a win as a prime Norton. Floyd himself called Gatti a C level fighter.

That was after he had already faced Manny at Welterweight, after slowly getting more accustomed to the division and roiding himself up. He was getting to wars with Juan Diaz when he fought Floyd. Floyd made him jump 2 entire divisions he had never fought in out of the blue, and still didn't make the agreed upon 144 weight against Marquez.

Canelo is obviously a better fighter than Foreman. Prime Canelo compared to prime Foreman at least. The version that fought Floyd had just gotten a disputed decison vs Trout, while the Foreman Ali fought destroyed a prime Norton and a slightly past it Frazier in 2.

You sound emotional, it's just Boxing talk. Just take a deep breath and relax bro.

 

Ali was truly a World Champion. He fought everyone, all around the world. Ali had bad hand as well but he dealt with it. Mayweather stayed in his hometown basically for most of his career, perhaps to be able to shoot up his hands.

Did Floyd defend his title on foreign soil? If he did I don't recall.

It's supposed to be the World Title.

 

Among those champions:
- shot Sharmba Mitchell over his best weight class;
- Arturo Gatti who was never any good;
- Berto and Ortiz who would barely qualify as fring contenders in Leonard/Hearns era;
- a lot of guys from lighter weight classes than Floyd's initial weight class (Marquez, Pacquiao, Guerrero)
- tons of decent but sure as hell not great title holders;
- washed up ODLH and Mosley;
- great wins over Canelo, Cotto, Corrales, Genaro Hernandez (last two solid champs whom Floyd completely dominated)

As for Ali, I would rank guys like Quarry, Lyle, Young, Bonavena clearly over so called champions like Ortiz or Berto from Floyd's resume. They were just better fighters, period. You may only disagree with that if you rank Bruce Seldon, Bermane Stiverne and Charles Martin over the guys like Tua based on them holding titles briefly

 

Ali has 41 fights against HW title contenders and a handful of other decent wins like Miteff, Mac Foster, Lubbers and Blue. Mayweathers got 49 fights total with like 25 quality wins.

Ali also cleaned out HW in two eras. Of the top 12 or so best HWs of the 60s and 70s Machens the only one Ali didn't fight. Mayweathers got quite a few respected champions at 140,147 and 154s missing in Bradley, Khan, Tsyzu, Trinidad, Brook, Paul Williams,Trout, Margarito, Thurman, Danny Garcia.

 

Here's how I have it:

Floyd Mayweather

Quality wins: Tony Pep (82), Genaro Hernández (86), Angel Manfredy (83), Emanuel Augustus (84), Diego Corrales (88), Carlos Hernández (83), Jesús Chávez (85), José Luis Castillo (85), José Luis Castillo (87), Arturo Gatti (82), Sharmba Mitchell (83), Zab Judah (88), Carlos Baldomir (85), Oscar De La Hoya (92), Ricky Hatton (90), Juan Manuel Márquez (89), Shane Mosley (91), Victor Ortiz (86), Miguel Cotto (93), Robert Guerrero (84), Canelo Álvarez (94), Marcos Maidana (86), Marcos Maidana 2 (88), Manny Pacquiao (93), Andre Berto (83)

Quality win total: 25

Average value of quality wins: 86.72

Big 3: Manny Pacquiao (93), Canelo Álvarez (94), Miguel Cotto (93)



Muhammad Ali:

Quality wins: Doug Jones (83), Henry Cooper (85), Sonny Liston (89), Henry Cooper (85), Floyd Patterson (87), Ernie Terrell (84), Jerry Quarry (84), Jerry Quarry 1972 (84), Oscar Bonavena (83), Jimmy Ellis (87), Floyd Patterson (85), Joe Bugnar (85), Joe Bugnar (85), Joe Frazier 1974 (89), George Foreman (97), Ron Lyle (87), Joe Frazier 1975 (93), Earnie Shavers (85), Leon Spinks (84)

Quality win total: 19

Average value of quality wins: 86.86

Big 3: George Foreman (97), Joe Frazier 1975 (93), Joe Frazier 1974 (89)

 

You should be ashamed of yourself for writing down such scatter brained tripe. Gatti was actually the worst hof fighter who Mayweather beat, a guy holding a 140 belt who entered the ring near 160 who had just destroyed Dorin in a couple rounds. The worst hof fighter who Ali beat was a fifty year old Moore in the wrong weightclass. Apples and oranges.

You aren’t going to win any points by crapping on Marquez and Canelo. Those are two guys who will go down with more favorable rankings in ATG lists than anyone Ali beat who wasn’t fifty years old.

 

You’re literally giving the same rankings to fairly average contenders and guys on pfp lists.

 

Like where specifically? These numbers aren't definite I keep changing them based on feedback and my own thoughts

 

Tony Pep and Emanuel Augustus as quality wins ? Come off it that's just padding a record for the sake of it.

You also leave off the likes of Zora Folley, Karl Mildenberger, Cleveland Williams, George Chuvalo, who were all ranked contenders that Ali beat Folley was a top 2 ranked Heavyweight.

So you can easily extend Ali to 23 names and lessen Mayweather to 23 names.

 

Ali fought guys in their primes, he treated boxing like he wanted to build a legacy, Mayweather treated it more like a business.
Mayweather may have more names and obviously is a 5 weight world champion, but obviously heavyweights can only win a title at 1 weight.
I’d say Ali’s resume is more impressive.

 

I think they were both solid fighters when Floyd fought and beat them so I included them. Zora was a good but never a great fighter at his best and he was way past his best when he fought Ali so that's why I didn't include him and Karl I'm not super high on but I guess I can include him. I tried to limit to good fighters they beat rather then ranking all their wins but the list isn't definitive I'm always changing it around based on feedback and my own thoughts