CMV: I think Usyk beats any version of Ali

Holmes, Wlad, Lennox, Usyk

Fury at his best could

Who I'm guessing Foreman and Frazier don't see the third (I'd favor Usyk aganst both tbh)

 

Depends he pressured Hunter, Bellow, and Briedis pretty effectively he can do both if he needs to depending on the matchup

 

I wouldn't favour Usyk over Frazier an elite swarmer is a horrible style match up for a boxer/mover like Usyk who doesn't have concussive power.

Frazier would be all over Usyk and unlike Chisora he doesn't slow down late on in fights he gets stronger.

 

if he has enough power at heavyweight to hurt SHWs he has enough power to hurt Frazier and simply reducing Usyk to just a boxer/mover is reductive

 

Fury has been hurt numerous times against far lesser opposition and he's been down close to 10 times in his career being able to hurt Fury is not a rare achievement.

Joshua got knocked down close to half a dozen times against Ruiz who couldn't put a dent in the likes of Liakhovich, Arreola, who were way past their prime

Size doesn't equal durability.

Frazier took Ali's best punches who hits as hard as Usyk if not a bit harder when he sits down on his punches.

 

Fury was a few months off coming to a draw vs Nnganou. He isn't beating Ali. Doesn't have the work rate to beat Ali and doesn't have the power to ko him.

Liston.

Liston had an elite left hook. Usyk being a southpaw makes him more open to a big left hook compared to an orthodox fighter. Remember Usyk needs his lead hand (his right hand) to defend vs Liston's left hook. Because Usyk is going to be jabbing with his right hand, it means anytime he extends his right hand, he has to worry about the left hook. Liston has longer arms and will be able to land on Usyk.

Usyk can't move and dance with the speed Ali did so Liston would land a lot more. I think Usyk-Liston is a 50-50 fight.

 

I love both to these guys, and I am leaving it as that. Ali was The Greatest, and Usyk has his own unique place in the uber-elites. Hurray for January 17.

 

There's a difference between an all-time great and the Greatest of all Time

 

You lost me here. A left hook from the southpaw stance isn't hitting Ali in a million years because it would take too long and he'd see it coming. Ali was susceptible to left hooks from an Orthodox stance, not necessarily any left handed punch like Usyk's southpaw left straight.

 

Generally it does every heavyweight fighters ko rate goes down against heavier opponents

 

Yeah I was confused by this too. Usyk is not a true pressure fighter. He is good at it in short spurts, but he isn't a relentless in your face pressure fighter 80% of the time.

If there's one guy I could compare Usyk to, it's actually Pacquiao. Both are "ambush" fighters who are good at getting in and out with fast flurries, backing off, jump in again with a combo, move side to side a little, etc. The main difference is Usyk is much better at actually boxing at mid range behind a jab and has better defense than Pacquiao.

 

Left hooks aren't very effective against southpaws plus you ignore Usyk’s excellent handfighting, Usyk would take away Listons left hand with his handfighting something he is the master of while Liston has 0 experience dealing with plus Liston has shown that he doesn't know how to deal with movement while Usyk is one of the best movers in heavyweight history don't really see this as a hard fight for Usyk at all Liston way too limited to ever give Usyk trouble

 

Not an argument.

 

Usyk applies pressure in his own way with constant feints and relentless movement, creating openings and forcing his opponent to react. He may not be a traditional pressure fighter, but his style of jumping in with quick combinations and then maintaining the pressure through feints and activity is just as effective in wearing opponents down.