Oleksandr Usyk vs Larry Holmes primes

But not at 13 fights, and not consistently.

The best day of Witherspoon in his career might beat the best day of Joshua, but I still like Joshua on the record.

 

Witherspoon may not of had alot fights when he fought Holmes but he peaked vs Holmes and that was arguably the best performance of his career.

An out of shape Witherspoon dealt with another Joshua clone in Bruno both muscle bound big punchers who freeze when they get hurt.

Witherspoon has a considerably better defence and takes a much better shot than Joshua. One over hand right from Witherspoon flush on Joshua's chin and he would end up like he did vs Dubois.

 

Sure, if you only focus on their most recent fights, it might seem like Norton was in better form, considering his competitive win against Young. But looking at their entire careers, Fury's overall body of work is much stronger, and his past performances, including dominant wins over Wilder and Whyte, suggest that he was still in solid form despite the Ngannou fight. That was a fight he clearly didn’t take seriously, and he looked in much better form in the fights he actually focused on. A single fight doesn’t determine a fighter’s form or capabilities, so we can't just judge based on the most recent bout. Fury’s overall accomplishments and consistency make him a stronger opponent overall going into his fight with Usyk.

 

Furys only decent win in years is vs Whyte who was already damaged good from being sent to shadow realm from a shot Povetkin. What has Whyte done since losing to Fury ? Scraping by Franklin in a split decision ? Who's a borderline top 20 Heavyweight at best ?

Yes I do consider the Norton who fought Holmes to be a better H2H fighter than the Fury who fought Usyk.

Norton showed much better conditioning and considerably better form.

 

You're saying that to give more credit for Holmes for beating him but there's no real evidence for that considering he was only 15 fights in, showed his inexperience in the fight by taking the pedal off when he didn't need to, and would go on to win a title later on and idk if he would beat Joshua since his chin wasn't the best and he lost to worse fighters then Joshua but maybe tough fight to predict. But I think overall clearly beating Joshua is more impressive then having a close fight with Witherspoon that you arguably lost.

Yeah bro I literally agreed with that lol...........

 

I'm saying Witherspoon is a better H2H fighter than Joshua what do you mean Witherspoon's chin wasn't the best ? apart from the Bonecrusher fight in which Witherspoon was grossly out of shape and got caught cold whilst having problems outside the ring getting shafted by Don King. Witherspoon to me always showed a fairly good chin he took hard punches off Thomas, Mercer, Bruno, who can all hit.

If anything i'd worry more about Joshua's chin.

Good to know.

 

Based on what? Giving Ali a tough fight? Take away the Ali fight and Norton doesn't really have much to suggest he's a particularly good H2H fighter, especially compared to someone like Fury, who has had much more dominant showings against a broader range of fighters. Fury has been the top fighter in the division for many years, while Norton really only had success against one specific style. So, it's hard to argue that Norton is a much better H2H fighter.

 

The issue with Witherspoon is that he wasn't very consistent, he had some good nights and some bad nights. Joshua, on the other hand, has been a more consistent fighter overall and was a top contender in the division for a long time, which Witherspoon never really was.

 

Well Joshua hasn't really done much in the last 5 years his best win since losing to Usyk is Wallin.

Witherspoon remained relevant from 1982 to 1996 with wins over the likes of Tillis, Bruno, Snipes, Page, Tubbs, Williams, Gonzalez, and most felt he beat Mercer who was coming off a very impressive performance against Lewis.

The reason Witherspoon didn't get big fights in the 90s is because of the fall out with Don King well that's my theory anyway.

 

That's just not true. Witherspoon was consistently ranked in the top 5 from the Holmes fight all the way until 1989. And I don't see how losses to Thomas and Smith are bigger signs of inconstistency than AJ's KO losses to Ruiz and Dubois are, given how heavy a favourite he was against both. It's not like AJ also lit the world on fire with his fight vs Franklin and Helenius either.

 

Witherspoon was ranked in the top 10 for 11 years overall i believe and his best decade as you said in the 80s he was ranked top 5 consistently.

Apart from the Bonecrusher loss in which Witherspoon was in a bad place physically and mentally.

His losses to the likes of Holmes, Thomas, in the 80s were not due to inconsistencies they were just down to losing to top tier opponents. Holmes is an ATG that's obvious and Thomas went undefeated for 7 years and peaked vs Witherspoon in the best performance of his career.

Losses to Thomas, Holmes, in competitive fights is far cry from getting dismantled by Dubois, Ruiz.

 

Witherspoon was top 10 ranked from 1983 until 1992, from what I see according to the Ring's annual ratings.

I think we'll have to wait and see as far as Dubois is concerned. Maybe he ends up being the best fighter around for a few years after the likes of Usyk and Fury retire. Maybe Aj's loss ends up aging gracefully. Agree as far as Ruiz is concerned though, judges have been very kind to him in his fights with Ortiz and Miller. I'm not convinced he is world class at all.

 

Yeah we'll have to wait for Dubois to see how his career pans out i think some of his recent wins may of flattered him a bit and he has a stern test vs Parker which i'm not sure he wins but time will tell.

As for Ruiz i think he had some talent and some quick hand speed but he never really impressed at world level outside of the Joshua win. He couldn't put a dent in the likes of a shot Arreola i also remember he had alot of difficultly vs a completely past it Liakohovich aswell. Not to mention he got a total gift vs Miller and just about scraped past Ortiz who has no durability anymore as evident from getting floored twice by the very average Charles Martin.

 

I was mainly referring to the fact that Witherspoon never held a world title for long and couldn’t keep it when he did win it, whereas Joshua was a champion with more title defenses and stayed in the top 3 of the division until his loss to Usyk, something Witherspoon never achieved.

 

Yeah I mentioned Bobick as well in my comments, many deemed the loss embarrassing among other things and thought Holmes didn't have the heart to be a top pro. So much for that train of thought. He's one guy whose amateur career means nothing really in the pro scheme of things.