Holyfield beat a better version of Foreman than Ali did

Younger, wide throwing Foreman would absolutely get countered by a Holyfield combo and probably go down for however long. But Holyfield didn't put down the older version, after landing some crisp combo's, body shots and everything else. I'll say that much.

 

Lmao surely you can see how hypocritical this post is.

No one believe the 40 odd year-old version of Foreman is better than the 20 odd year old. No one.

 

I like the exercise @janitor suggested. Make believe Foreman and Foreman 2.0 are entirely different fighters and ask yourself who is better.

 

Simple question to end this debate right now.

Put a young Foreman in the 90s do you think he loses to Morrison and goes life and death with the likes of Moorer, Savarese, Schultz, Stewart, yes or no ?

Because its quite apparent to me a young Foreman would do considerably better against those opponents hence young Foreman is logically the better H2H fighter.

I've never heard of a 40+ year old past his prime athlete being at his best it's a bizarre opinion quite frankly.

 

Old Foreman from the Holyfield fight doesn't necessarily have all of these problems, either.

 

In no other sport can that argument be made.

 

Ask yourself, does old Foreman have THAT sort of fight with Ali...with Lyle? Imagine old Foreman fighting his younger self? I really think he school's him. Foreman took his faults and rectified them albeit in an older package. He was not as wild, his engine was better, his chin seemed better. There IS a strong argument from some that young Foreman was a better fighter. But Old Foreman beats him.

We also have the original question, which isn't even is young Foreman better than old Foreman, it is specific, a snapshot in time. Did Holyfield beat a better Formean than Ali? Let's answer that by 'swapping them out'. An unpopular opinion maybe, but the Foreman Ali fought was one of the worst versions of young George, and the Foreman Holyfield fought was the best version of the old one. For me, Ali's Foreman gets stopped by Holyfield and Holyfield's Foreman finishes on his feet against Ali....

 

Ali wouldn't need to rope a dope old Foreman he would simply outbox him at range and win a wide points decision.

As for Lyle old Foreman got into a life and death slugfest vs Stewart more than likely he would still have alot of issues vs Lyle.

 

I think it's quite possible.
Zaire was a weak (stupid) fight. Foreman fought below his capabilities, the circumstances of this fight were also not objective. Just like Liston did 10 years earlier. It wasn't a good fight for them.
The fight with Holy was a very good fight with an opponent who fit him stylistically and she was clearly better focused.

I don't think the old Foreman was better than the young one, but he's closer than it seems. Foreman Ali is one of the worst versions of Big George between 1972 and 1977 while Foreman Holyfield is the best version of Foreman after his return.

 

Have you actually watched old Foreman fight? Not just highlight of the Moorer KO, but actual complete fights?

 

The worst thing happened to Joe that could happen to any PitBull pressure type of fighter. He got civilized.

 

I agree with this.
George was pretty sharp that night. I don't think he got back to that level again. Holyfield beat a good contender that night albeit a limited one.

George improved some parts of his game and was perhaps a more well rounded boxer. Mainly because he had to. Foreman's reflexes were not the same. He wasn't going to be able to create openings or force them open the way he once did.

Overall 70s Foreman was the greater force in the heavyweight division.

 

Just rewatching Holy-Foreman now and the revisionism of Old Foreman into some 50's Archie Moore is just hilarious. Absolutely zero head movement and most of his power punches are being picked up from the floor and very telegraphed. The cross armed defence is fairly effective in catching shots, but he can't catch and counter off it so it becomes very predictable. His jab is good, but it always was. Just watch him against Chuvalo, Frazier and Norton.

The main thing about Old Foreman is that he adapted well to his declined physical assets in terms of pacing, but some technical wizard he was not.

 

Oh, goodness, I'm not suggesting old Foreman would have beaten Ali, but I think he'd have done better and finished on his feet. The Stewart fight is a fair point, but again, we are talking about the Holyfield version of Old G, and the Ali version of Young G, a specific snapshot in time. Very interesting conversation, thanks for your thoughtful reply

 

Common sense goes a long way doesn't it. It's also getting rarer by the year.