Tyson Fury and AJ were do they rank on a all time heavyweight of all time list?

No where of consequence....

 

I was just throwing out a few names since the turn of the millennium
I wouldn't have an issue with anyone rating Fury and Joshua's resumes above the names I mentioned -
V klitschko
W klitschko
L lewis
M tyson
E holyfield
Though would likely disagree with many of them

I put Vitali in there as resume I thought there could be some debate about him having a greater overall resume than Fury and Joshua.
WBO, WBC, Ring HW champion
13 HW title defences
16 - 2 -0 in HW title fights
Has wins over-
Hide - WBO HW champion
Peter - WBC HW champion
Sanders - who had beaten Wladimir in his fight before and years before Fury or Joshua beat Wladimir
Arreola
Williams
Briggs
Hoffman
Johnson
Gomez
Sosnowski
Solis
Charr
To name a few

If people put the 5 names above over Fury and Joshua
They would be outside the top 5 just in the last 25 years as I expect most would have Usyk above as well

 

Just looking at HWs active from the 90s
Would you rate one or either above any of the names below resume wise?


V klitschko
W klitschko
L lewis
M tyson
E holyfield
G Foreman
L Holmes
R Bowe
O Usyk


I do think that Fury and Joshua are top HWs who have both circled in and around the top of their era at various times

I think it can be difficult to place where fighters can be placed historically as circumstances often account for where they are rated

 

1 vs 1 Prime

Fury Top 10
Joshua top 50 maybe

 

I assume you are rating H2H rather than on resume?

 

I mostly agree with that and wonder why he feels they are so far apart.
I thought Joshua did well against Usyk in the rematch and won a fair few of the early rounds from what I recall
I think round wise, don't think either probably in 24 rounds won many more against Usyk than the other though felt Fury was more competitive in the rounds of the fight if that makes sense?

 

I can see Joshua having problems something similar to Ruiz and Dubois against Mercer, Morrison, Prime Povetkin, etc,and those are fights that for me, for the most part, Fury would win easily.

Styles makes fights

In general I see Joshua with more weaknesses than Fury

 

You assume well

 

You do have to also take into account that the more top 10 competition you face, the more chance you have of losing
Below was pointed out by another poster
Looking at The Ring 2017 yearly ratings for example

Tyson Fury Champion
1 Anthony Joshua
2 Deontay Wilder
3 Joseph Parker
4 Alexander Povetkin
5 Luis Ortiz
6 Kubrat Pulev
7 Andy Ruiz jnr
8 Dillian Whyte
9 Dominic Breazeale
10 Jarrell Miller

Joshua fought 6 of the other top 10 and tried to make fights with all the others
The more often you face top rated competition, the more chance you have of losing, rather than just picking off opponents at the right time

I think both have opponents and styles they would struggle with
I think Fury would have a tougher time with big HWs who are heavy
Look at how different his 3rd fight was with Wilder when he was heavier, or Wallin and Ngannou who were big and heavy
I think styles make fights, but that is only recognised when taking on all comers

 

Joshua and Hearns always prefered the easy route.. He fought the easy picks..

I think completely the opposite, Fury is complicated by fast fighters with volume of blows, not by big and slow fighters.

 

I really don't get that
Fury beat Wladimir but didn't defend the titles, so Joshua couldn't challenge him.
Wladimir was rated #1 and Joshua fought him in his 19th fight
Joshua called out Fury after that win
I read they offered Fury the fight when Fury returned at 60/40 with Joshua defending his titles
An offer was made to Wilder who took less money to defend against Fury
He fought Undefeated champion Parker
Povetkin who was highly rated and would have been Wilders biggest fight had he faced him

 

Joshua and Hearns
always evaded strong aggressive boxers with punching

I quickly tell you :
zhang
wilder
ortiz
joyce
prime povetkin
bakole (lets see if this happens)

Fury's problems were not fears, his weaknesses were his personality, drugs and alcohol.

Imo Joshua is overrated

 

Agreed that I can only rate them where they stand AS OF NOW, because their careers aren't quite over.
Both are fairly close together, IMO. AJ has more losses - and worse losses. But he did fight a.wider range of names and styles. Fury has lost only to one man (a legit ATG) but has a weaker resume in terms of who he was willing to fight. That said I would be tempted to rank Fury marginally higher, on balance. He might crack the top 30... whereas I would have AJ perhaps top 40

 

Joshua put Zhang on his ass in the Olympics. Plus when there actually was plans for Joshua to fight Zhang, late 2022, people were saying he was cherry picking the loser and ducking Hrgović. I guess you can't win in the eyes of some.

Wilder admitted he ducked AJ.

Ortiz rejected the offer to fight AJ in 2019 and his camp made it clear that it was a bad decision. He also lost the WBA mandatory position due to the PED use. If he didn't use PEDs, Joshua would have to fight him in 2018.

When did AJ avoid Joyce? There was never a window for this fight to be made, except for the late 2022, but are people really shocked AJ wanted some lesser opposition to rebuild after 2 losses to Usyk?

Prime Povetkin? You mean the one who was supposed to fight Wilder but got popped for PEDs TWICE? AJ fought Povetkin as soon as he got back into contention after the drug ban.

Bakole? Again, no window to fight him except now. We'll see if it happens indeed.