Larry Holmes vs Evander Holyfield ATG Who ranks higher

Holmes. Its not even close.

In fact, he gave Holyfield a very good fight in 1992.

 

Care to elaborate on why?

 

2 times as many world title wins.

Considerably better record vs top 10 ranked opposition.

Holmes was the best of his era where as Holyfield was the 3rd best of his era.

Way more consistency.

 

At HW? Holmes, and it isn't even close

 

Holmes at HW.

Holyfield P4P.

 

Holmes was greater, but only by a hair.

H2h I don't see Holy doing well. Either a stoppage in the late rounds or solid UD for Larry. It would be a great fight for sure.

 

Holyfield

More historic wins (which this crowd seems to ignore or downplay- maybe it was steroids, or fat Douglas, is all). But Holmes is definitely getting the nostalgia vote.

Holyfield never looked good as the favorite- ever, as a heavyweight. He was the very antithesis of a front-runner, always restricted himself when he fought a guy like Holmes, Cooper, Moorer. Tyson was the front-runner.

Tyson runs over Tunney. Tunney drags Holyfield (the favorite) to some ugly decision fight. Holyfield (the underdog) KO's Tyson every time.

Skill-wise, Holyfield was much more flexible than Holmes. Holmes had great resistance strength- but so did Holyfield- if he stuck his arm out and flexed it, for resistance, Lewis' punches just bounced off of him. And I rank Lewis above Holmes- sorry, old buddy, Larry.

 

Holyfield

 

Per the thread criteria i'd have Holmes ahead at Heavyweight. Overall P4P greatness Holyfield takes it obviously.

 

Holmes didn't use PEDs.

 

I rank Holmes higher but i can see an argument for Holyfield.

Holyfield faced much better competition IMO. 3 fights vs Bowe, one vs old but still dangerous Foreman, 2 vs Moorer, 2 vs Lewis, 1 vs Mercer, 1 vs 96 Tyson who was still dangerous etc. Holyfield faced skilled super heavyweights, southpaws, swarmers etc. IMO Holyfield faced a wider range of styles.

Offensively, Holyfield is a better fighter. He was a better combination puncher with a better left hook.

However, Holmes had better foot movement, a better jab, better outside fighting skills and greater consistency. So i do rank Holmes higher. But i can totally see an argument the other way.

 

Very difficult to say. At different times, I have had the different man ahead. I am currently leaning towards Holmes, but it isn't easy to judge.

 

@dmt this is a good post but if i can just chime in on a few things.

Whilst Holyfield did face better opposition he wasn't always winning and that's what counts in the end.

Holyfield was heavily criticised at the time for going the distance in back to back fights vs old versions of Foreman, Holmes, and whilst those wins look better with hindsight at the time they were not highly thought of.

Holyfield clearly lost to Lewis 0-2 and whilst Holyfield was competitive in the 2nd fight i'm not sure how 2 clear losses do much for his ranking.

An old Holmes already easily beat a younger Mercer.

Norton, Witherspoon, are better Heavyweights than Moorer IMO and Holmes didn't take a loss like Holyfield did to Moorer.

Tyson, Bowe, are the stand out wins on Holyfield's resume and it's what separates him from Holmes in regards to best wins but he still lost the trilogy to Bowe 1-2.

For me personally i don't.

Holmes had 20 world title wins compared to 10 for Holyfield.

Holyfield was probably the 3rd best of his era unlike Holmes who was the best of his era.

Holyfield's Heavyweight resume was 26-10 compared to 69-6 for Holmes.

P4P i rate Holyfield higher than Holmes but in regards to Heavyweight rankings Holmes is clearly above Holyfield for me.

 

Good post.

Sure Holyfield lost to Lewis. But this was a 37 year old Holyfield who was less than a year away from struggling vs Ruiz. This wasn't prime Holyfield.

The reason i mentioned competition is to point out that part of the reason why Holmes was more consistent was because he was consistently facing extremely high level competition. Holmes, meanwhile, was avoiding Pinklon Thomas late in his reign, avoided a rematch with Witherspoon, didn't fight Coetzee (though i don't think Holmes ducked him) etc.

I agree Holmes is more consistent but i don't think he goes 48-0 in the 90's. Otherwise, i agree with a lot of what you are saying.

 

How would Holmes do in the 90s ? That's a good question I've never really thought about it.

Let's say for arguments sake Holmes peaks in say 1991 ? So we're transporting the 1978 version of Holmes who schooled Shavers. And we'll use Holmes's title reign of 7 years so let's say Holmes is competing between 1991-1998.

Bowe = I see Holmes beating Bowe who struggled against outboxers. Looking at Bowe's performance vs Tubbs and how he was shut down by Golota's jab I'd favour Holmes.

Holyfield = An old Holmes won between 4 or 5 rounds vs an old Holyfield logic tells us a prime Holmes would do considerably better and probably win a decision.

Tyson = this is an interesting one when Tyson came out of prison he wasn't as good but still dangerous. Holmes's form round about this time would be his performance vs the likes of Witherspoon. I think a prime Tyson beats a prime Holmes but would Holmes in the Witherspoon form beat 1996 version of Tyson ? Not entirely sure.

Lewis = Depends when he faces him Lewis had an elite right hand with KO power which Holmes could be vulnerable to. But Lewis could also be out jabbed Bruno, Mercer, befuddled Lewis with their jabs. I think Holmes beats an early 90s version of Lewis who wasn't as refined, but if he faces a prime Lewis of the late 90s at this time Holmes would be faded then I'd heavily favour Lewis of course.

Mercer = Holmes schools him we all see what a 42 year old version did.

Moorer = Holmes did lose to a Southpaw in the Amateurs but Holmes wasn't a good Amateur and he improved leaps and bounds when he become a professional. Still Holmes is a bit of an unknown quantity vs Southpaws but I would still expect Holmes to beat Moorer.

Some other notable Heavyweights Holyfield faced in the 90s.

Holmes definitely beats....Out of shape Douglas, Old Foreman, Cooper, Stewart, Bean.