Can someone explain to me why people rate Usyk above Mayweather & Pacquiao ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Dynamicpuncher, Feb 7, 2025.


  1. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think that Ngannou could have troubled some top heavyweights. AJ was all wrong him.
     
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  2. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    I couldn't give a crap if he gets a fair shake or not he brought it all on himself and Usyk doesn't get a fair shake from countless fans and he didn't bring any of it on himself or cheat and stack the deck.

    Floyd is patently a PED cheat and like I keep saying if Usyk got caught doing a fraction of the things Floyd did pertaining to that he would get crucified on a molten cross for it and he sure as hell would not be given a free pass for it by the exact same people who do so for Floyd

    And they sure as hell would not ignore it in threads like this. Hence why I have to bring it up and when I do they get all in their feelings about it

    But again, I never said Usyk ranked above Manny on the ATG list. I've just explained many of the reasons and context why that is which, ever so surprisingly gets conveniently ignored by the same people and I unlike them I don't think it's because Uysk is inferior or vastly inferior which they so obviously do.

    He just started running the race way later and didn't have the the opportunities they did regarding becoming a five or eight weight champion and much longer and much more fights to rack up more accomplishments. What he has done in 23 fights is crazy and unparalleled and guess what if you gave him twice the amount of time and fights he would've achieved way more than he already has
     
  3. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Especially if he had the element of surprise vs them. Ngannou hits crazy hard, harder than many of the HWs who've knocked out HW boxing greats.

    AJ hits extremely hard and he possesses the one punch power to KO him, Belly not so much, especially that version, and obviously Ngannou didn't have the element of surprise when he fought AJ who knew what to expect and not to take him lightly.
     
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  4. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Usyk is definitely inferior to both
    Anyway if usyk was a name and had the luxury of fighting from home while making more bread, he would have done so

    Don't pretend if Usyk wasn't English or from the States, that he wouldn't have made London or Vegas his home

    Yeah usyk is natural. Doesn't fight too regularly, so who is to say he doesn't cycle off? Anyway I'm here to debate boxing not drugs. Of course we need to mention drugs, because without scandal, then Usyk isn't on the same stratosphere.

    Had he joined the race earlier he may not be undefeated, or maybe he would be? We will never know. But we do know as mentioned on the original post he is a long way from manny and Floyd regarding ranked fighters, p4p wins, hof guys, title defences, etc, etc

    Of course we will use the asterisks to discredit Floyd, but what about manny? Oh he lost a few times. That's what happens when you fight top opponents for decades and many who are atg fighters themselves

    I just don't have usyk close. I gave him his flowers. The best in the current era for now. But Crawford has a chance to overtake and I expect inoue will also leapfrog him when he is ready to retire
     
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  5. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    That's you opinion but I disagree and if Floyd was so superior why did he needs to jack himself with PEDs, stack the deck so heavily, never dare travel, weaken and cripple his opponents at the negotiating table, and shamelessly duck, avoid, and age opponents out?

    No he wouldn't. He's just cut from a completely different cloth than Floyd and you know it and that manifests itself in the way he carries himself out of the ring too not just for his career path and the way he goes about it. He's a very honourable man who has never once tried to stack the deck, been caught up in a doping scandal and had dozens of red flags surrounding him regarding that, or weaken or cripple opponents at the negotiating table so don't try and tarnish him with the same brush as Floyd in order to try and mitigate the things Floyd has done.

    What part of I rate Floyd and Manny higher on the ATG list do you not get?

    If Usyk started running the race at the same time, had double the amount of time and way more fights and opportunities to achieve much more he would of. Maybe he wouldn't be undefeated but he would've achieved much more but even suggesting that makes people feel very uncomfortable and that is rather revealing even though it's so obviously true. Why are they so threatened by that or unwilling to accept it? A fair person would not have the slightest issue accepting that
     
  6. ruffryders

    ruffryders Active Member Full Member

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    I think usyk is THAT good, but I just don’t think he has the depth at heavyweight. This also means I credit him extra for achieving so much in so few fights. So it affects him both positively and negatively.

    regarding belly, if he struggles against lower guys or not, that is him and that effects him. We can’t commend him for that, a good champ like usyk turns up no matter who is in front of him and that is another reason why he is so highly regarded.

    we will have to disagree with our opinion on Floyd and Conor, as I think he played out the exact tactic many would suggest about a potentially eager novice with a point to prove…burn out his energy and let the class come through. The result was he ko’d a novice boxer who was a lot bigger than him.

    moving aside the “ifs buts and maybes” usyk started the race late, which has positively effected him creating such a legacy in so few fights, but negatively effected his depth.
     
  7. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Usyk is amazing, just because I say he falls behind others due to stats, DOES NOT deter from his greatness. I just want to make that clear, as sometimes when I get caught up on defending a point I forget to acknowledge the other fighter's accolades

    One thing we can all agree on, is Floyd/Usyk/Manny are great fighters and would have been a headache in any era. You can only beat what is in front of you and all 3 make a good job of it

    Usyk done the most with the least pro fights with no cards being stacked in his favour
    Manny has imo the most historic and unique accomplishments and will be extremely hard to replicate
    Floyd has imo the best skills, certainly defensively. He has a great resume, but he could have been greater with less caution

    Oh and Duran is greater than all the above!! lol
     
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  8. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree with alot of what you say just because we rate fighters over Usyk doesn't mean we don't think he's great or don't like him. And I think some people in this thread are not comprehending that and are getting triggered just because we don't rate Usyk as the "GOAT" which I think quite frankly is ridiculous.

    And forgetting Mayweather, Pacquiao, I don't even think Usyk has overtook Holyfield on all time P4P lists as it stands today.
     
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  9. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    You are one of the fairest posters on the forum and I hope if people don't agree with your opinions, they at least acknowledge they are unbiased
     
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  10. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Boxrec lists Usyk as having a 109 amateur fights. I don't know where this 300 plus number is coming from
     
  11. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Oleksandr_Usyk

    Says 350 here but I see another one on BoxRec which says 109 like you said.
     
  12. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Master of Chins Full Member

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    How many 'catchweight' fights has Usyk demanded for one. Usyk fought opponents significantly bigger than him and on the road and didn't demand special gloves, ring size, etc. Usyk is a fighter.
     
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  13. ruffryders

    ruffryders Active Member Full Member

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    He has achieved everything being the b side
     
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  14. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He got dropped multiple times and nearly stopped against Wilder twice. Clearly his struggles are not limited to unranked guys he doesn't view as a threat

    Cunningham was also good enough that one wouldn't expect him to take him lightly. He's probably Furys second best opponent pre Wlad after Chisora
     
  15. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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