1947 Jersey Joe Walcott vs 1960 Sonny Liston

Walcott would have success with that bait jab, pull down to the right and countering with his right as Liston tries to follow his movement with the jab, Liston was more upright than Louis and Walcott had success against him with that very tactic, he would jab, pull back and down to the right, and as Louis would follow that movement, Walcott would time that right.

It would work against Liston because firstly, like I said, Liston was more upright than Louis and also on top of that, he’d often lunge in with the jab and overcommit which would leave him wide open against Walcott.

I see Walcott outboxing him with his more versatile skillset on the outside, taking away Liston’s jab through level changing,, making him frustrating and giving ground which makes Liston start overcommitting with his feet and punches and Walcott counters him.

Not before Liston eventually forces the errors from Walcott and times him with the big right hand at some point late on, potentially times that pull counter of Walcott.

In a fight series, I see Walcott taking the first fight, but in the rematch Liston lets his hands go more and forces the errors more often.

 

Initial thoughts are that Walcott gets a decision based on superior stamina, counterpunching, Liston's inability to track down fleet footed foes and general lack of speed with his right hand.
However, Walcott could drop the ball and get driven back, outjabbed, not press Liston enough to tire him and lose on points himself.
It's either man's fight so I'll call it a draw. In a two fight series both take one, in a third, I don't know.

 

Liston ultimately nails him but Joe makes him work for it.

 

Good fight and a fight that, if it had actually had gone down as hypothesised, would’ve well upheld Liston’s own boxing skills imo.

Cute boxer types always give everyone some measure of trouble - that’s what they do - of course Liston was not immune to same but he wasn’t particularly vulnerable to same either.

Ali was an exceptional outlier in respect of being a “cute” boxer (woefully understated description, I know) - the versions of Ali that outboxed and beat Liston in Miami and Lewiston likely do same to most, if not all, boxers in history…barring my man, Joe Louis, of course.

The Machen fight is an absolute credit to Liston, not a demerit. So too is the Folley fight.

Two highly skilled boxers who were shut out during Patterson’s reign.

If Liston discovered that Walcott was a little bit too tricky to be seen off in the early rounds, Sonny would intelligently elect to box for as long as it was appropriate - but he would still be punching with far more than respectable power all the while.

Sonny was a man for all seasons, and the two guys he bested in both Folley and Machen could well have given the young power punching Foreman a lot more trouble than they gave Sonny.

I’ll put it another way, Liston would’ve beaten and stopped the version of Jimmy Young that prevailed over Foreman in 1977, imo.

For Young to have survived Liston, he would’ve had to have run like there was no tomorrow (ala Machen) - offering little in terms of point scoring offence all the while.

Jersey Joe would also have to contend with Liston’s reach and sterling jab - a jab that Liston also used for highly effective feints - dodge the feigned left and Liston had the right hand waiting for you.

 

This is almost exactly as I see it, but I'm leaning slightly towards Liston catching Walcott later in the fight and stopping him.

 

Machen had an injured right hand.

 

Jersey Joe Walcott would likely stop Liston, Liston just was a very basic fighter… I’m not sure why he gets such a pedestal? is it his “cool” outside the ring life? Because otherwise his style isn’t my cup of tea, cumbersome and relying a lot on his size, he punched with his shoulders and couldn’t fight inside but he had a sort of stalking style to him… anyone who is a fan of Liston for how he fights would see everything done better with Louis? He’s sort of the “hipsters” pick lol.

 

Yeah, and Liston also “blinded” fast Eddy -

Machen was always ready with an excuse or two.

IF the right hand was sufficiently injured for Machen to have so favoured that hand - then he could’ve considered himself lucky and seen it as blessing in disguise.

Hypothetically, with two “good hands”, Eddy might’ve then actually tried to properly engage Liston and be put out in short order.

Additionally, Machen fought dirty during that fight but got away with it because Liston was the preordained “bad guy”. Lots of holding and hitting, hitting on the break and pushing and shoving from Machen - but he still got his ass whooped.

Liston could fight on the inside, of course. He wrecked Cleveland Williams with a sequence of short, devastating punches on the inside.

Watch him, in close, while being held by the back of the neck, belabour Ali’s body with short powerful punches - leaving notable welts on Ali’s flanks - as Dundee described after their fight in Miami.

 

If you think Liston could fight inside I don’t think you understand what you’re seeing, take a look at Louis for a heavyweight example. Fighting that way just wasn’t Liston’s strong suit there’s nothing wrong with that. Yes Eddie had an injured right hand and fought like it.

 

"If you think Liston could fight inside I don’t think you understand what you’re seeing," The irony.

 

Liston could fight inside and out.

You need to watch more closely and not be tainted by your obvious bias. There’s seems to be a LOT about Liston that many others see but only you, somehow, “don’t get”.

Again, Machen put forward multiple excuses.

He primarily fought like someone who was merely trying to survive.

If he had fought more aggressively and used a “good” right hand more - what happens then?

He would’ve been knocked out.

 

He had an injured right hand that’s pretty obvious you yourself notice he’s trying to survive, it’s just the way it is.
Liston couldn’t fight inside I can see that for myself, It was a weak point, it’s okay that he can’t why does it bother you? Ali couldn’t either and he’s the GOAT HW (Him or Louis) it’s a rare skill. Why would I have a bias against a dead athlete from like 80 years ago? i don’t understand your line of thinking it’s like when people screech “Agenda” why would anyone have an agenda over dead athletes? I just don’t think he’s that good… I also think the same of Wilfredo Gomez? I don’t see nearly as many people getting upset about that? Actually near none I think - it’s not a bias it’s just a harmless opinion, if anyone is bias it’s you? You think Machen would be knocked out that isn’t a fact Pug.

 

All respect to Walcott, but Sonny Liston was an absolute beast and had too much momentum in 1960. He won five fights that year including Machen, Folley and Williams. He was also showing up consistently at a fit 212 lbs. Walcott might hang in there for a while but I don’t like his chances in this one