What Lyle accomplished turning pro at what I believe was 29 yrs old is very impressive. If he had some amateur pedigree and was able to turn pro in his early 20's would have made a significantly positive difference IMO
Subjects like this are so hard to discuss or predict. If Lyle had a stable family, never gotten into trouble, never went to prison ,would he have been the kind of man who took up fighting for a living? It's possible , many have ,but it was His early life with all it's trouble that prepared him for the boxing ring. Had he been able to turn pro at 20? , he possibly could have been much better. But it's an unknowable
Through the roof. If he can't get through Ali he probably could take out Frazier in Fraziers early 20s when Lyle was at his absolute physical peak. Thats no sure thing. But you can see the path right there for Lyle to walk.
Definitely high if he started young, but it's really a huge what if. Who knows if he is this gritty and hungry if deprived of what so cruelly shaped him.
Considering that Lyle was already boxing for the title, and he turned professional at 30 - that changes the entire history of boxing. The question is whether Frazier would have been the world champion in that case?
He's in my top 10 all-time in the 'Wouldn't fight this guy on a car park' ratings. He stood there and outpunched Shavers and came bloody close to doing the same to Foreman. The kind of guy the likes of Haye, Joshua and Klitschko would have taken restraining orders out against.
It stands to reason that he might have gone further. Assuming of course that he didn’t sustain a major injury early
That's a much better question than the ones I usually read about him, but i'm not sure, he was a certain type of man. The indiscipline in form and strategy may just have remained. On the other hand it makes no sense to say that further experience and tutelage would have had no effect. I guess we'll never know.
Yi can add and if he was not almost stabbed to death in prison ... I believe he was pronounced dead and they then saved him ... talk about injuries that never fully recover from ...
He gave Ali and Foreman all they could handle as it was. Yes you definitely had clay that could have been molded into a monster there. There are many fighters that you can say that about though. What about Jess Willard? What about Elmer Ray? Just looking at our current division, what if Joe Joyce or Zeli Zhang had been guided correctly from a young age?
We talk about Williams being a reduced fighter after being shot… Monzon too, Lyle died on the table twice after being ripped up with a blade he was an extremely wilful man, in his book there is a bit on how he operated and he was a straight guy who had some demons, he was a killer (allegedly) but did his best and earned a slice of history ay? What if he was spotted at 13? What if… he could’ve been Ali’s chief rival in the 60s? Might’ve torn a more exciting path through the division and got Sonny first, might’ve had a better trainer etc when he built momentum.
Thoughts on these two. When someone who probably wasn't the best HW became champion in a fight they were losing by over 20 rounds its hard to say they didn't live up to their potential. If Willard starts a few years earlier hes not beating Johnson. Hes not beating Langford either IMO. He might actually be the best white HW at that time but he wasn't the best white HW in 1915-1919 and he became champ anyway. Willard might have started at 29 and had a short career but those two things really aren't related. He could have had twice the career he had in his existant timeline. He had 4 fights in 8 years. If you look at Ray while WW2 was bad timing he was managed like Deontay Wilder and didn't fight any top HWs for years. Ray started his career at 22 and was struggling at a high level in his 20s. Unlike Willard he might have been better than his peers in his 30s but all of them had a much tougher SOS and Ray didn't take the steps neccessary to prove it before Charles and Walcott. For the standards of his loaded era that had 30 elite guys Rays 40s SOS is just terrible. You can't blame the war for that.
He had as much potential as he achieved. Clearly the young Ron Lyle was not disciplined or focused. He was without direction so he went to prison. That young man would not have been successful as a pro fighter. If he had found boxing before that, ho knows how he would have been. It is very possible that he learned discipline in the pen and would not have otherwise. I have a friend that has been in and out of jail since 1978- we are the same age. He can punch like Joe Louis, all self taught. He often says that, had he known where to find a boxing gym when he was 13, he would never have been in trouble. He says that after years of introspection. Those of us that knew him back then know he would have found a way to get in trouble on the way to the gym.
Camden Bizzsaw and B-Hop both had similar background to Lyle and doubt would have same careers had turned pro at 29.