the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Czyz was really involved in some cracking fights:

Tim Broady, Willie Edwards, Prince Charles Williams (both fights especially the 1st), Leslie Stewart, Uriah Grant, Robbie Simms.

His win over the undefeated Olympian Champion Andrew Maynard wasn´t classic fight but my favourite terrific performance (and vs Robert Daniels) from Bobby.

Good commentator too.

 

In wake of the recent death of Greg Haugen, I remembered I hadn't seen either Camacho fight for some odd reason. I remedied that last week in observation of his passing, and it was a perfect illustration of the best points of his style and how he suited it to his own gifts or lack thereof.

Greg was first and foremost an anomaly. He didn't have great power, speed, defensive skills (though he could be elusive in his own way). He wasn't the most dynamic fighter ever, he had no immediate fight-turning gifts that could bail him out of a tough spot against world-class opposition. He was going to grind you down, but do it in a thoughtful way; cutting the ring into halves, then quarters, always pressing you but rarely in your face. He limited your space but didn't put his head in your chest to do it. He simply made you uncomfortable. Pressed to find a solution to this problem, opponents would lash out to try to equalize, and that's precisely what he was looking for. He'd cut the ring from a distance, you'd fight back to try to nullify, and he'd counter you to death. It worked well against a variety of opponents, and in Camacho we see perhaps the ideal opponent for such a strategy. He's not going to give Camacho a Bazooka Limon look, leading wth his face as he bores in. Camacho was a reluctant battler by 1991. He fought in bursts, and tried to coast and rest the remainder of the time. He also didn't want to commit to a power game because that would leave him more open to return flurries, which he abhorred.

Camacho fought a bad fight here; armed with more natural gifts such as speed, mobility, and power, he should have been more assertive but that's just not his way. The announcing team for HBO commented on the irony of his nickname "Macho" and that resonates here, as it did too often in the last decade-plus of his career. He just left too much on the table.

Anyway, the crown jewel of Haugen's career, considering the odds against him by the Vegas know-it-alls, and he deserved it. I could see a card for Camacho, it was a close fight and really could have gone either way, but in the end the correct side won; the side of preparation, perseverance, and grit. One always feels better when a victory has a sort of moral stamp on it.

1. Haugen
2. Camacho (sharpens his aim and is more active)
3. Camacho 10-8 (shockingly drops Haugen at the close of the round with a sharp right hook)
4. Haugen
5. Haugen
6. Even
7. Camacho
8. Camacho
9. Haugen
10. Haugen
11. Haugen
12. Even 9-9 (Camacho docked a point for hitting at the final round touch of gloves, stupid, stupid move)

114-113 Haugen. Interesting fight demonstrating essentially what both fighters were about. It tells a story, and those fights are always worth watching.

 

Haugen cutting the ring reminds me of Harada,he disappears when you're about to hit him,then appears again to pressure you.

 

I loved his fights with Williams, Sims, Hamsho and Maynard but I am going to check out the Stewart and Daniels fights. Thanks, man.

 

Bobby Czyz v Leslie Stewart (10 rounds)

Round 1: 10-9 Czyz
Round 2: 10-9 Czyz
Round 3: 10-9 Czyz
Round 4: 10-9 Czyz
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Stewart
Round 8: 10-8 Stewart (scores a knockdown)
Round 9: 10-9 Stewart (Best round)
Round 10: 10-10 Even

Total: 96-96 Draw (actual scores: 95-94 Stewart, 96-95 Czyz and a 96-93 for Czyz by a split decision)

The only score that seems to be out of place was the 96-93, but then again, so many of these rounds were so close the pendulum could have swung in that judge's eyes. A damn good fight and I think, really should have been scored a draw. So close and these two bathed themselves in glory in this fight.

 

Viy, I checked this out today. This is how I had it...

Bobby Chacon v Jose Luis Martin Del Campo (California scoring)

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Chacon
Round 3: Del Campo
Round 4: Chacon
Round 5: Del Campo
Round 6: Chacon
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Chacon
Round 9: Chacon drops and stops Del Campo

Total through 8 completed rounds: 4-2 Chacon (actual scores not known)

Viy, totally respect your scorecard. Some very close rounds here. Del Campo had such an effective jab. I think it would have served him well to followup with a combination after the jab since he was delivering them in ones. But I was also impressed with Chacon's short, jolting punches that were taking a toll on Del Campo. Indeed, that last combo in the 9th, that dropped Del Campo landed on a tired and dazed opponent who had fought his heart out by the 9th. Good fight.

 

Robert Daniels v Bobby Czyz (Cruiserweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Czyz
Round 2: 10-9 Czyz
Round 3: 10-9 Czyz
Round 4: 10-9 Czyz
Round 5: 10-9 Daniels
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Daniels
Round 8: 10-9 Czyz
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Czyz
Round 12: 10-9 Czyz

Total: 118-113 Czyz (actual scores: 119-112, 116-114 both for Czyz and a 116-114 for Daniels for a split win for Czyz)

Tough fight at time to score. Czyz fought very smart in and out but when Daniels pressed or when Bobby got brave there were some good exchanges. Good fight where I felt Czyz deserved the win with a high-energy style that kept the shots rolling in Daniels' general direction.

 

Dmitry Bivol v Artur Beterbiev 2

1 10-9
2 10-9
3 9-10
4 9-10 (close)
5 9-10
6 9-10
7 10-9 (close)
8 10-9
9 10-9
10 10-9
11 10-9
12 9-10

Bivol 115-113 Beterbiev

Like the first fight in that it was a fight of two halves but the roles reversed this time. I felt Beterbiev was making a point of applying pressure earlier in the second fight but as a consequence he maybe burnt off more energy and ran out of steam over the second half. Bivol showed excellent movement and better combos to keep Beterbiev at distance and deserved the win.

 

Oh man that’d be tough to do on the spot but I’ll give it a go. Based purely on skills, and the eye test.

1. Joe Louis
2. Ray Robinson
3. Roberto Duran
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Ray Leonard
7. Floyd Mayweather Jr
8. Willie Pep
9. Marvin Hagler
10. Manny Pacquiao

5 more Honorable Mentions: Lennox Lewis, Archie Moore, Julio Cesar Chavez, Carlos Monzon, and let’s go… Jack Johnson.

These are just off the top of my head. A lot will probably disagree and honestly, if I had time to really think about it I’d probably come up with some tweaks here and there. I will admit that I don’t have a huge sample size of Henry Armstrong or Willie Pep, just the few videos I’ve seen on YouTube. I just go off what little I’ve seen, along with first hand accounts of the fights such as newspaper reports, and just what others have said of them.

To me Joe Louis was the perfect fighter. Can box, uses footwork and feints to position opponents, absolutely beautiful short punches and the cleanest combinations, KO power and the ability to finish a hurt opponent, high punch resistance, can counter when needed, zero fear of any opponent, had the composure to turn a fight around even when he was losing, and took on any and all contenders. Ducked absolutely zero men in his career.

 

Btw send me your top 10 ATGs. I’d like to compare and see others point of view and why they rank certain fighters over another.

 

1: Ezzard Charles
2: Sugar Ray Robinson
3: Harry Greb
4: Henry Armstrong
5: Archie Moore
6: Jimmy Mclarnin
7: Roberto Duràn
8: Mickey Walker
9: Tony Canzoneri
10: Fritzie Zivic