But hate Mike Tyson I see people pump up Liston but say that Mike Tyson is overrated Liston cleaned out a similar (if not weaker) era as Tyson late 80s in the late 50s. Liston was more of a front to runner than Tyson quitting against Ali twice (yes he did don't argue). Tyson fought till the end vs Douglas, Holyfield first time and Lennox (yes ear bite was quitting) Tyson had a deeper resume and a more refined skillset Tyson even regained the heavyweight title something that Liston never did Seriously speaking Liston may be the most overrated heavyweight of all time
It’s an odd thing. In many of our lifetimes, the worst thing a fighter would do was throw a fight — flush the entire integrity of the sport (the actual combat in the ring not all the politics and mechanizations around it) by deliberately losing. Sonny was believed to have done so and all but banished. Yet comes a time later when guys like Liston and Jake LaMotta, who absolutely threw at least one fight, were not only forgiven but practically hailed for doing so. I suspect if it happens again in a major fight in our time — say a Pacquiao had come out after the Mayweather fight and admitted that he tanked it on purpose, or Joshua or Fury did the same after Usyk — that the fighter would be vilified. But I wonder if 50 years hence they’d be hailed. Likewise, the sporting public at one point didn’t suffer quitters like Liston. Then along comes Duran and somehow Leonard is the villain for forcing poor Roberto to pay a price for not taking his championship and his profession seriously by (allegedly) not training properly. At one time, Roberto Duran was not just my favorite fighter, but my favorite athlete and my favorite public personality (above anyone from Hollywood or in any other realm). But a thing is what it is — it is not something else — and fact is when the chips weren’t in his favor he proved to be a quitter. It’s unavoidable fact, but to many it’s not only forgiven, it’s actually defended. I don’t get it.
While he did have an unstable mental and it was pretty much shown in the second Leonard fight,I wouldn't say he was a full time quitter though,one time but never all time,had he quit all the time he would've say no mas Infront of Paz,and his last fight would've end in a no mas too. But yeah,I agree, Duran is kind of like a somehow less unstable version of Chan Hee Park,he was good at everything but his mental fortitude could be questioned at times,I respect him for not quitting vs Leonard for the third fight though.
Why? He wasn’t getting beaten up badly. He was just getting outboxed, same as in the second fight. Liston at least fought on with a broken jaw in one fight, as many others have done. We’ve seen fighters with broken hands and Archie Moore getting up time and again in his most famous win, Floyd Patterson and Joe Frazier rising to keep trying when they were in lala-land … but Duran gets a badge of courage for not quitting because he’s having trouble landing on his opponent and getting outpointed? What about all those guys who fought Duran at lightweight who took savage beatings but didn’t quit? Where’s the credit for them? We gonna throw a party for everyone who ever got outboxed and didn’t surrender, who kept trying, lol?
I don't really give him a badge of courage for the third fight, it's dull. But he actually knew what would happen if he quit again,and so...he didn't repeat it again,you could arguably say Lawlor I but whatever.
But anyways though,thinking again you're damn right. I would've had a field day giving boxers a good job badge if I do thought like in my previous comment again lulz.
Ya I think it becomes a sympathy thing after a while and over time people feel pity for Liston and Duran With Lamotta I think it's just accepted that boxing was corrupt back then so he gets a pass Same with Jack Johnson
All legitimate comment. The first Leonard fight he clearly got into Leonard’s head with his pre fight antics remarks about Leonard’s wife etc but Leonard’s response was a macho one engaging in Durans type of fight, the wrong choice but you can only admire Sugar Rays balls doing that and he was supposed to be the “fancy dan” fighter. On the other hand once Leonard turned it round the second time relying on his boxing skills and taunting and making fun of Duran in the ring he couldn’t handle it, instead of trying to walk Leonard down and possibly having to take a sustained beating the supposed ”machismo” fighter undisputedly quit. Duran’s one of my favourite fighters but this will always be a blemish.
Liston was definitely a Top 10 all time heavy in my opinion. Decent boxing skills,ramrod jab,wrecking ball of a right hand and strong as an ox. He had his "Skeletons in the cupboard" but he was hardly the first or last.
Listons reach was 14 inches longer than Tysons. Tysons power isn't on Listons level and he had the strictest cardio limitations of any ATG HW. The reasons why one would rate Liston over Tyson are many.
It's kind of a weird community here. It at least has identity. I've never known Billy Miske to get as much respect as he does here either and it is kind of unexplainable.
It´s all reactions. Mike was totally overrated by casuals and some not so casuals.. so, why big him up even more ? Liston is not even that well known.. so... people feel like he should be talked in a better light.