Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

So, Wlad is responsible for WBC having a stupid policy of not ranking the champions of other bodies and sanctioning the fight between 2 second tier heavyweight for their title? What do you think would happen if Wlad was allowed to fight for the WBC belt against Stiverne? Why the WBC would not want the best heavyweight in the world to fight for their title? Now it's Wlad's fault? LOL.

 

Are you claiming the bodies' cross recognition is what Wlad never became champion? That's what you're saying? It's the WBC's fault because they didn't rate him?

 

Give me a ****ing break.

The only person Wlad said he wouldn't fight was Vitali.

Wlad had no problems fighting anybody around. Hell, half his resume is guys with 1 or no losses. He liked to pop the cherries of 'tough guys'.

Getting mighty strong Dino vibes here.

 

Well, yeah. He couldn't fight for the WBC belt when Vitali held it for an obvious reason and when he finally could, he wasn't allowed to because of the policy. WBC went fully insane when their crowned Stiverne their champion. No wonder Wlad had the undisputed status even without that belt.

 

Wlad literally defeated every top contender there was before Vitali came back in 2008 and after he went MIA in 2012. That's literally 5 years of beating top contenders, while Vitali was only active for 4.

 

You rank Canera over Holmes, that means I don't take you seriously.

If you fancy a self policed ban bet, where one of us creates a thread on which we both make our respective arguments for who is greater out Canera and Holmes, and see which gets the most votes in the poll, let me know, otherwise I'll ignore your posts from now on.

 

At least you're trolling tongue in cheek and not belittling those who don't conscribe to your absurd (mock) view.

 

Lol! I remember Corrie Sanders would just stand there and kinda look like “Ok… yep.. let’s just get this **** on. But do you with the mean mugging” while many of his opponents would try and stare fear into him lol

And as a Wlad fan I hate to say this… but Wlad tried that with Corrie and we know the rest.

 

Respectively, I think Amalgamation Foreman deserves a spot. (He’s the version that combines the best attributes of the comeback version and 70s version minus the shortcomings.)

 

you don't see the irony in that?!

Buddy, every single thing about your so-called criteria comes down to popularity contests. Of course you'd be the sort to find value in a large number of mostly ignorant fans agreeing with you.

Do you think I do not know the norm in which I buck against? It's a silly challenge; two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Also a ban bet? TF. No, then I can't win anything. I enjoy chatting with fellow boxing fans. Even those I disagree with. I think this ban bet popularity contest challenge is, well, surprising from one who claims to value critical thinking.

I won't respond to you anymore and that can be that. No reason for either of us to never post again ... that's ****ing weird bro. It's a weird offer and you're a weird dude.

 

What WBC policy is it you are claiming prevented Wlad for seeking the WBC belt?

 

Wlad was “the man” of his division for about a decade… I’m sorry he didn’t fight his brother ffs lol Liston fought CWs 190lbers and had one successful title defence over a guy who was a middleweight at the olympics… If you take H2H into account at all this is easy if you value Sonny being “undisputed” over a non division I guess that trumps being the “unofficial” champ for forever… much the same as Larry Holmes people didn’t then and shouldn’t now care so much about collecting all the belts, you know who the champ is… comparing it to a time where you only had to beat one guy to get the title and couldn’t be stripped unless you did something stupid is silly and cope… if Wlad won the title from Floyd Patterson he probably beats the young Ali that went life and death with Cooper just fine… Liston probably losses to Byrd trying for the WBO lol - how about we ask them to swap reigns? Who do you think does better? Swap opposition and you’ll see some holes in ranking Sonny over Wlad, Wlad keeps winning for a long time after getting the belt even at a mature age… Liston gets either hammered by one of the big guys, ages out too fast or never wins the belt from Byrd and becomes a “guy” in the division who holds onto a belt for a bit like a John Ruiz or something.

 

So, by your logic, the only thing that matters is being undisputed, regardless of actual dominance or resume? That’s laughable. If that were true, then Leon Spinks and Carnera all outrank Wladimir Klitschko just because they were undisputed at some point. Do you actually believe that? Because that’s what you’re arguing.

You keep claiming Wlad “avoided” competition without naming a single elite fighter from his era that he “ducked.” Who are these “better names” that overlapped his career but aren’t on his record? Because I can list the top-ranked guys he actually beat—Haye, Povetkin, Byrd, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Peter, Rahman, Pulev. That’s a deeper list than Liston’s entire career.

And this whole “co-champ” argument is just word games. Lennox Lewis spent years with Holyfield and Tyson holding belts, was he a ‘co-champ’ too? Was Ali a ‘co-champ’ in the 70s when Foreman, Frazier, and Norton had titles? Being undisputed is great, but it’s not the sole metric of greatness. Dominating a division for a decade is.

Liston reigned for 17 months and never defended against a ranked contender after Patterson. Wlad ruled for 9 years in a four-belt era, fought every mandatory, and cleaned out an entire era. If you seriously think a short reign with an undisputed tag outweighs a decade of dominance, then you don’t understand boxing history at all.

 

One day Wlad might win a poll against Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali that's the next step

 

Sadly never but we're making progress!