Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

Well, yeah bud, that's an excuse. You are excusing Wlad's lack of WBC title with contenders rated by everyone but the WBC ratings and there's more belts. Excusing. As in saying Wlad does not need to because of these reasons.


Carnera requires none of these excuses.




The NBA went around the world establishing regional authorities until it hit world level

The WBC formed a coalition out of the remaining regional authorities that existed prior to the NBA to achieve global reach.

When the IBF and WBO split from the WBA they did not overnight regional authorities into existence, they took control over a percentage of authorities that already existed. It's a restructure.

Men rise up THESE ranks and THESE ranks alone to become world champion

Wlad avoided 1/2 the world's input on boxing and you call him dominant.


Carnera rose up and defended through all of the HW division. He was actually dominant.

 

Wow, sounds like you think Wlad avoided some amazing fighters. I wonder who these standout athletes were?

 

you explain to me how this post has any value at all. What do you see yourself as here? A fluffer?

Nah dude, you address some **** I said. I already addressed him. Do you expect me to say something different because you asked for a take 2? Bro, it's not a fight, it's not going to be a different response to the same post I already responded to. Copy/paste if you need to read it twice, idgaf.

Or to say that differently, if you want a different response you need to add or subtract something more than your feelings to this conversation.

 

Gimme like five dude. I've more notes than I am used to and mostly from this thread. Just let me get everyone responded to so no one feels ignored and I'll pop back to you.

 

The lineal championship ended when Tunney retired. Wlad, Ali, Holmes, and all the rest of the pretenders rank below Peter Maher.

 

You mean cross recognition?

How long has the WBC not ranked champions?

Where on the WBA or WBO's rating is Dubois?

WBA: https://www.wbaboxing.com/wba-ranking

WBO: https://www.wboboxing.com/rankings

Where on the IBF is Usyk rated?

IBF: https://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/ratings/






When Wlad fought Haye for the WBA, where did the WBA rate Wlad at that time?

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wba-ranking-pdf/2011/WBA-Official-Ratings-May-2011.pdf


Where is he rated?





You ready to admit you don't know what you're talking about yet bud? Want more sanctioning body arguments? Maybe pique my thread on authorities before you step to me on their acts bro. You're not even close to ready for this, get back to talking about Wlad and Liston, get off the WBC. It's too loaded in my favor. That's just the truth. You know how much research you did for this, none, you got told and believed it. Look at this **** here: https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/a-small-bit-on-belts.733048/#post-23270944

I'm just saying, in terms of who is a great champion, who is a great HW, you're solid and can son me. Here, bodies, authorities, buddy, you're not even in my league is the truth.

 

Was Wlad rated by the WBC when the belt became vacant or not?

 

It's like a refusal to see the point. I am not saying reigning over WBC mandos would have given him resume. I am saying he will have ruled over all of boxing rather than half. When you say he was dominant you are being hyperbolic. The reality is he left a path to avoid him.

 

Are you serious right now? Nope, not doing wee PP BS bro. I just lead you. Just showed you this is a nonpoint.

So which is it, are you really, really, actually slow and I'm just being mean or are you a scum sucking POS who is more than willing to spread misinformation to save face?

 

Klitschko statistically. Liston would beat Wladimir H2H though,in my opinion.

 

You're jumping around the question my man. Was Wlad rated by the WBC in December 2013 to be legible to fight for their vacant belt? If not, how the hell was it Wlad's fault? You're trying to tell me, that WBC crowning a second tier heavyweight as their champ after defeating another second tier heavyweight is all good and Wlad was the problem not that joke of a sanctioning body? Tell me this, why wouldn't WBC let the best heavyweight in the world fight for their belt? It's obvious he would have mopped the floor with Stiverne.

 

H2H

Sonny Liston vs. Wladimir Klitschko

Another fight that could go either way. You have Liston’s power, reflexes and ramrod jab against Klitschko’s equally impressive left jab, powerful overhand right and hand speed.

Even though Klitschko towers over Liston by five inches and approximately thirty pounds in weight, Liston’s reach is longer by three inches, and this gives Klitschko some huge problems. He struggles to establish his own jab, and Liston hits just as hard, if not harder.

Dr Steelhammer’s suspect chin struggles to hold up to the Big Bear’s lethal jab and hooks, and once Liston lands a hard shot, Klitschko starts to fight too defensively. It doesn’t take Liston long to work over his foe and put him away.

Verdict: TKO win to Liston in Round Four.

Extract from Undisputed Available on Amazon https://bookgoodies.com/a/B0D46RPZ23

 

I have no problem speaking directly to this. I only just noticed.



Y'all ain't as ready for this as you think you are.

I dunno who Dino is, I'm Marchegiano on a rival forum whose name I doubt I can post here but is super popular and recently purchased.

Around 2015ish I tracked the HW champions from then to 686BC, bridged the gap between the greeks and english, explained the history of authorities, defined the belts and awards in history, just a bunch of stuff that was very, very, dry history based things. That's what brought me here. Just, you know, spreading the word. Ancient Champions, Authorities, Myths, Rules/Regs, Equipment, **** like who invented sparring, what the colors were all about, etc.

So actually, before youse know me here as an opinion poster and I guess a bit of a rabble rouser, you first know me as a well respected history buff who gets lots of cute thumbs and little criticism. Then I started being asked my opinion and I shared it. Worst thing I could ever do here! So, I kinda just stfu for a few years and only popped in here and there to post additions to my works in progress.

That said, should you really suspect this Dino is me and I he, then I say to you, without knowing this user at all, look at my post history and make sure you believe he has the chops to produce what I have. Because if I look at his I am likely to be insulted by the comparison aren't I?



Finally, cross-trainer sees me fairly clearly. Being right isn't always important and changing minds isn't always the goal. Sometimes there's more to be found in a reaction. I'm not some weird hipster social experimenter though dudes. You can simply ask my motives. I will tell you:

The vast majority of beliefs in boxing are handed down and unchecked. As a fan base, historians, and everything in between, y'all are absolutely horrible at fact checking. Your history, if you want to call it that, is a bunch of reprints that source back to the imaginations of 18th century slave owning european wealthy elites. Even events with in not just your lifetime but prime of your life fans recharacterize into some fantasy that does not match the reality.

Right, wrong, or indifferent on the Wlad vs Sonny debate what is absolutely not true is Wlad not getting the WBC belt because he wasn't rated by the WBC. That's 100% some fantasy some fan produced and spread. That is the sort of reaction exposed by the stance.

And so it is a simple and incomplete answer to say Richard Fox and Nat Fleischer were conmen and charlatans and misinformation and mass belief founded on nothing but the imaginations of men who never fought spread through their media and into the minds of fans who then passed down said fantasies to those they shared the sport and their "knowledge" with. There is the other aspect of things. The fanbase's absolutely incredible gullibility.

There is a demagoguery to boxing that is ill defined and should you have taken the time to look at my past works you would know I am not simply whistling dixie when I say I will chronicle this and do my best to explain its ebbs and flows.


This, what I said in the greb thread about skepticism working in one direction, my posts on globalization, they are all connected.

 

I did not tell you, I showed you, that is simply not how any unification works. Period. I do not know where this he wasn't ranked and that's why he couldn't fight for the WBC title narrative came from but I did not tell you it's wrong. I proved it to you. It is simply wrong. So forgive me if I seem a bit disrespectful but right now it looks like you know damn well it's wrong but you're going to try to argue like it isn't anyway.

Why TF would you want to spread this lie around? K2 and Sonny ain't that damn important, damn. The ratings of champions has **** all nothing to do with unifications happening. FFS.

There's no dance. I can't be more clear. The sanctioning bodies can't be more clear. NO. You are wrong. I jusy showed you the ratings in 2011 when Wlad, IBF champ, unied with Haye, WBA champ. Was Wlad rated by the WBA? No? Okay den, TF is you doin' son?

 

Candidly, you'd probably both be insulted by @BCS8's suspicion that you and dino are the same guy.

So more of a venting thing?

You were talking earlier about how using sanctioning body rankings takes the subjectivity out of rating discussions. Could you elaborate on your reasoning?