Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

Wlad never finished the fight on his back. Always stood up to fight. Peter fight is a great testiment to that, I think that was the moment when Wlad came of age as a future ATG.

 

That is debatable

 

I have never doubted the courage of Wlad.Or the courage of any man who steps into the ring.

 

Wlad was basically a carbon copy of Lewis with more power, worse chin and no inside game except for clinching.

 

Fair enough perhaps debatable is a reasonable view.But at the very least Cleveland Williams's
punching power was comparable to that of Brewster.

 

Kinda he had a much better jab and left hook and his overall distance management was better imo I also believe he was a harder puncher but Lennox was def much better on the inside.

 

Liston did become undisputed champion when he defeated Patterson,and for some years before that he
was clearly the best heavyweight boxer in the World.

 

I don't know about the jab, but probably, Wlad's jab was amazing. Left hook definitely. Basically if you gave Wlad his brother's chin, we're looking at maybe the most complete heavyweight of all time, who can defeat everybody in the H2H matchups. That chin tho... The reason I wouldn't favor him in some of these matchups.

 

I certainly wouldn't call Wlad's wins pitiful when you list Liston's next to them.

Frankly, I wouldn't pick Roy Harris to beat ANYONE on Wlad's list there.

I wouldn't pick Mike DeJohn to beat ANYONE on Wlad's list, either.

Same with Henry Clark. I don't see him beating anyone on Wlad's list.

And Nino Valdes was the VERY END of a 20-year career when Liston fought him. Valdes isn't exactly knifing his way through anyone on Wlad's list, either.

I don't think the quality of Liston's wins helps him like some of you think it does, when compared to Wlad.

 

But Patterson is a low-level great. No one on Wlad's list rises to that level.

Foley and Machen have records that dwarf the guys on Wlad's list.

Williams has a kind of legend about him that makes his name stand out in a way that Ruslan Chagaev and David Haye don't.

 

You never fail to meet my expectations. You are a special lad.

I never put words in your mouth by saying you compared Wlad to Lewis. It was George who compared them in order to make a point of how you seem to look at Wlad as a fighter, which you are now confirming is what you believe. More proof that you don't watch fights, because they're not similar. Just fighting tall and using reach is not the same as having the same style. Wlad was far more cautious than Lewis ever was, and relied on his length and clinch work to a significantly higher extent than Lewis did. Just because they both fought tall doesn't mean they are similar.

And highlight KOs do not show key tendancies, their whole purpose is to show a fighter looking at their best when their opponents shows no resistance. You know, the thing Wlad desparately wanted to prevent all his opponents from doing, to the point where his own trainer (who also worked with Lewis extensively) was cursing at him to throw more punches. If you don't want to accept that, then stay in your imaginative land where Wlad is a 6'6 Joe Louis.

And who said that Wlad is not a devastating puncher ? It appears that all this ''you're shifting goalposts/topics, you're putting words in my mouth,'' talk you''ve been spouting is projection on your part, because that has never been uttered by either me or George.

 

I am enjoying reading this back and forth.

 

Patterson came in below the 1990s cruiserweight limit. That’s like dunking on a nine foot hoop and claiming to be the dunk champion.

 

I always remember Wlad Klitschko being a guest on ESPN's FNF when Floyd Patterson died. Wlad had just demolished Byrd for the second time and was the new IBF champ. They interviewed him about Patterson and showed highlights of Patterson's career with Wlad in the studio talking about them.

The juxtaposition of Wlad and Floyd was striking at the time. Like they were discussing a lighter weight fighter. Not a champion talking about a peer from the same division.

Liston never fought anyone like Wlad. Whereas, Wlad fought a lot of aggressive, hard-punching, stocky 6'1" guys, most of whom weighed a lot more than Liston. They were sort of Wlad's bread-and-butter. He liked fighting guys like that.

Wlad could be upset on occasion. But, head-to-head or based on career achievements (which Wlad dominates), Wlad clearly deserves to be rated higher.

 

Ah yes, the classic ‘You don’t watch fights’ dismissal—always a reliable crutch when the argument starts slipping away.

First, you did put words in my mouth by claiming I view Wlad as 'another version of Lennox.' I compared aspects of their styles, which are similar. No one said they fight identically, but pretending they have nothing in common is just dishonest. Both relied on their size, controlled range with the jab, and clinched when necessary. Yes, Wlad was generally more cautious, but Lewis also adjusted his aggression depending on the opponent.

Second, your take on highlights is nonsense. Of course, they show a fighter at their best, but they also reveal patterns, how a fighter sets up shots, what weapons they rely on, and how they break opponents down. Dismissing them outright is just an excuse to ignore evidence that contradicts your narrative. If Wlad was just some hyper-cautious clincher with no offensive ability, then his KO percentage, his ability to drop iron-chinned fighters, and the way he systematically broke opponents wouldn’t exist. You can’t erase that just because it doesn’t fit the story you want to tell.

And nice try acting like no one’s downplaying Wlad’s power. If that were true, we wouldn’t be having this discussion, because the whole point was to show that he wasn’t just some safety-first, jab-and-grab fighter, he was also an elite finisher. But sure, keep pretending this isn’t about discrediting him.