Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

I thoroughly dislike the use of the word '' bum''.No man brave enough to step into the ring deserves such disrespect.
Now back to the matter being discussed-- Liston inflicted the most appalling damage on the 6'5'' Wepner while Liston was way past his peak.At 6' 5'' Wepner was only an inch shorter than
Wlad.Liston,with his enormous reach,would definitely be able to catch Wlad with his punches.
This could be very bad news for Wlad.Very bad news indeed.

 

...But he didn't. And so, 226 pound, 6'2" Brewster remains bigger than 6'1", 213ish pound prime Liston. And Liston remains very, very much smaller than 6'6", 245ish pound Wlad.

 

Thank you.The stats you have quoted underline that the physical differences between Liston and Brewster are minimal.Yes the same Brewster who destroyed the 6'6'' 245 lbs Wlad.
Again,thank you.

 

Not really, Wlad was a guy who ruled for 10 years Terrell was a… guy? Begging? Just like Cooper, Chuvalo, Norton and other C tier guys? How about Bonavena? Ali was a mortal, he had style issues, Wlad would KO him or UD Ali and I’ve already gave you something - got anything else besides “But Terrell was tall” or “Nah bro” how does he counter Wlad’s length? Break it down, How does he get past the jab as the front runner? Did he ever? How will he behave as the aggressor? If his counter arsenal is mostly “pulls” where does that leave him as the smaller “stubbier” guy? Do you think Futch / Norton understands how to jab better than Wlad and Stewart? I’d say they’d come to the same conclusion, jab with the shorter Ali keep him at the end of his straight punches and you defang him and let’s not talk about how great he was at avoiding left hooks… I have a feeling Ol Wlad sneaks his in there.

 

Liston had a weight advantage over Wepner, too.

219 real pounds that he actually weighed, plus 10 imaginary pounds that he could've added with modern training.

 

You're putting way too much stock in a fight against a mediocre, feather-fisted opponent with awful defense. Wlad was faster, more physical, and far more technical than Wepner. I highly doubt Liston could withstand Wlad’s power, let alone impose himself the same way he did against a much lower-level fighter.

 

Oh come on.For goodness sake use your own eyes.Look how Wlad absolutely froze against Fury.Do you really
think dear old Wlad would'nt have been even more bedazzled by the young Muhammad Ali ? Seriously ? Please,go away and think seriously about this.

 

@Journeyman92 is asking for a technical breakdown of how Ali beats Wlad in the ring. Just in case plan A of scaring Wlad into defeat with bedazzling youthfulness fails.

 

You are overlooking the fact that Wlad,for all his undoubted greatness ( yes I do actually regard the younger Klitschko as a great heavyweight ) was a very,very cautious guy.
He would have been severly inhibited when facing a fighter of Liston's tremendous power.
Shades of the Fury fiasco,

 

Liston vs Wlad “30lbs is nothing” okay so Marciano vs Liston isn’t a huge difference eh? And stylistically he’d be the guy for the job… or does it not count now? Can I finally say 190lbs Toney vs Foreman? Or does that not count still? Patterson was only 10lbs smaller then Ali but Brewster isn’t that much bigger then Liston….? Visually the contrast is interesting between Brewster and Liston, Liston looks a little “blown up” or carrying too much extra weight, Brewster looks like a big athlete.

 

Ah but that is the issue.Ali wouldn't need a plan B.
LOL ! Yes,indeed Ali's ' bedazzling youthfulness ' would be too much for Wlad.Why try to deny it ?

 

It's good that you give Wlad his dues, and it's only fair to point out in reply that Liston was also a great heavyweight.

What makes you think that Liston would still have "tremendous" power by the standards of the division Wlad dominated?

Since you've been emphasizing the effects of training, you should consider that the types of training a lot of the 2000s heavies were doing -- which was what partly made them bulk up -- improved and even emphasized strength and power. Whereas by your own account, Liston's training whittled him down.

 

Wlad was cautious against Fury because Fury was bigger, more mobile, and harder to bully, not just because of power. Plus, Wlad was 40 by then. He fought plenty of dangerous punchers in his prime and handled them just fine.

 

See this never fails to happen… “it just is” a technical breakdown is never in the cards it’s the last thing to raise its head in a discussion, we’d much rather “ATG” “Undisputed” “HOF” as if we are stacking enchantments for a Role playing game… couple quippy lines burrowed by commentator's “lead right hand” “sneaky jab” “hand control” “fast as Robinson!” etc go any further and you’re an idiot for suggesting someone actually break down the fight besides “good, competitive but XYZ wins” “UD but a good fight” “TKO7-8” etc YOU BLINK for we have created fun Cross!

 

Well yes,you do have a point.However despite Liston being disadvantaged by the more orthodox training of
his era I still feel that Sonny would at least match Wlad for strength and power.