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I think if Jimmy Young and George Foreman fought 10 times, that night in San Juan would be the only fight Young wins out of the 10. A year later, Young couldn't even beat Ocasio.

Young went on a two-year run where he was a top heavyweight, and the other 19 years of his career he was fairly ordinary and lost a lot.

Young was at his absolute peak against Foreman, and George was spiraling out of control. The Agosta fight weeks earlier was almost cancelled because George had gotten into a physical altercation with a woman at the hotel before the fight and the police were called.

During the Young fight, Foreman got dehydrated. He was hallucinating in the locker room afterward and was hospitalized immediately after the fight.

Jimmy Young was interviewed by the USA Network the night Foreman fought Carlos Hernandez in 1988, and they asked Young tongue-in-cheek about a rematch with "Old" Foreman, and, of course, Young was so scatterbrained and shot at that point, it was sad.

Credit to Young. That night in San Juan, he pulled it off. But I doubt he ever could've repeated it. He caught George on just the right night under the right conditions. That happens sometimes.

 

Foreman had arrived with less than 24 hours to acclimatize. I agree that, that's completely on him. Even so, I think Foreman's technical changes post-Zaire were far more detrimental. He tried to fight more "correct", which on paper should've made him better but it didn't. It actually made him worse. I've went into detail on this before.

 

The Foreman of the Ali fight was far far different than the one Young fought. He may've tired but he still had that unwavering "I can't lose confidence", and unlike the Young fight actually got a great return on his work-rate for gassing out.

His strategy in both fighs, were clearly different. That's clear as day. You seem to be arguing the gameplans were the same in both fights. It's not as simple as "Foreman gassed against Ali so he'll do the same against Young lolz". This isn't even taking into account that Ali was far busier, and more powerful than Young ever was. He was planting his feet and blasting Foreman with Counters and power that Young was never capable of, which contributed to Foreman gassing out. Young also was hardly ever the poster-boy for work rate.

No offense but have you actually watched the fights?

 

I don't think it was his best night, I was referencing multiple different, better versions of Foreman to get my point across- I referenced his first match with Frazier in the next sentence of my post. I don't think that George needed to be at his best night to beat Young, but that Jimmy wouldn't have beaten the 70s version of George apart from THAT night in Puerto Rico alone.

Sending in Foreman from TRITJ is one of my many solutions to beating Young, because again, I think that Jimmy wouldn't have beaten him on any other night, in any other conditions (talking about 70s Foreman). George also didn't lose to Ali simply because of the hot climate, or because he ran out of gas, or because he punched himself out, but because of ALL of those things, along with Muhammad's masterful sharpshooting off of the ropes... Young could not replicate Ali's performance, and he sure couldn't beat THAT version of George.

This logic is just flawed. Young put on a great performance against Foreman, and he was able to win, but just by the SKIN of his teeth. Again, I've been saying it since my very first post in this thread, Foreman nearly stopped Young. Jimmy won wide on points, nobody can take that victory away from him, but he would NOT be able to survive George's onslaught in any other situation.

Once again, you're dodging what I asked. How do YOU think Young would have won against better versions of Foreman, considering the fact that he nearly LOST against the worst version of George the 70s had to offer.

I'm 90% sure one of you is just trolling cause this is the most absurd **** I've ever heard on this forum.

 

Young didn't get "nearly get beat" he won 116-112, 118-111, on two of the judges scorecards and I personally had it 116-111.

It was a comprehensive points win and the decision was never in doubt who the winner was after the fight had ended.

Like I said use all the excuses you want Young clearly beat Foreman and I believe he's a bad style match up for any version of Foreman end of.

That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

 

Read what I said again.

 

So Young getting hurt and then recovering in the same round in which he finished stronger is the argument you're using ok.

If anything it's a rebuttal to your point because Young survived Foreman’s power and recovered from it.

 

He recovered from a Foreman that could barely corner him, I don't think him being able to survive to the end of the round against THAT version of George says much about how he'd do against say, Foreman from '73.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Never would've expected this opinion from you.

 

What do you mean you wouldn't of expected this opinion from me like I've committed a mortal sin ?

I think Young has a troubling style for Foreman and believe Foreman would always difficulty with him. Young is a very durable slick defensive fighter and unless Foreman finished Young within the first 6 rounds he would always have a great deal of difficulty with him.

I don't see what the issue is ? I think fighters like Young, Byrd, Holmes, Usyk, would all pose a very troubling style for any version of Foreman.

That's what I alluded to earlier about stylistic match ups.

 

He was coming off of five stoppage wins in a row, yes. Young still beat him, yes. But George was not the same fighter he was against any of them, not for Jimmy. The George of '76 was WORSE than the one from 2-3 years before, and the one from the Young fight was even worse than THAT. Go watch and compare the footage, he obviously was worse for ware.

??? Where did I disagree/not say that a better prepared Foreman could've won? I said point blank, that I think Young wouldn't have beaten a 70's Foreman on ANY OTHER NIGHT, and that he needed the perfect combination of all these things to take the win against him. And no, I didn't claim that anybody who disagreed with me was a troll, I said that I was 90% sure that one of you was trolling because of how absurd this is (and no, I don't think you're trolling CT, you always claim odd **** like this). Not to mention the fact that it was never my "argument" that you guys were trolls and therefore your points were moot.

How many times are you gonna dance around what I'm ACTUALLY asking you before you respond?

How would Young beat any OTHER version of Foreman, when he nearly got stopped against the worst (70's) version of him? That is what I asked you, and again, you're not responding to it.

It's not an easy task, but we're talking about George Foreman, here. He nearly did it in the worst state of his career (up to that point), so I'm sure that he could've done had he been in better shape. Shavers and Lyle couldn't stop an in shape version of Jimmy because they just weren't as accurate as George. Lyle couldn't even beat a lesser version of him from '76, and I doubt that Shavers could've either.

Go back and watch the Cooney fight, I rewatched it a couple days ago, and I think it was crazy that the fight wasn't stopped earlier.

Frankly, I'm done arguing with you about this because you've quoted me three times and still never responded to something I was saying since my very first post in this thread. Hope you have a good day.

 

I watched Foreman vs Frazier 2 a few months ago and I thought Foreman looked as sharp as ever in that fight. Outside of the Lyle fight in which Foreman was a bit a rusty there's nothing to suggest in Foreman’s prior fights to Young that he was slipping.

 

When I say "I wouldn't have expected this opinion from you." it's not like that, lol. I said above that I thought the opinion that you and CT hold is just absurd, and so, I wouldn't have expected it from you.

Difficulty, yes. Young would provide most, if not all heavyweights difficulty had they matched with him. He's a hard guy to look good against, and he's one of my favorite heavyweights due to that fact.

But saying that they'd give him trouble is not equivalent to saying that they'd beat ANY VERSION of Foreman. You say that all of them would give him trouble, I agree. But, if you said that all of them would beat him, I wouldn't.

 

I think all the fighters I mentioned are capable of beating any version of Foreman yes and I don't see what's so absurd about it quite honestly.

Does that mean they would all necessarily go 4-0 ? of course not no. Because you can never predict a fight especially with someone of Foreman’s power who can turn a fight on its head with 1 punch.

But durable tricky defensive fighters like Young, Byrd, i think are capable of beating any version of Foreman yes.

And I certainly think Usyk, Holmes, would aswell.

If you disagree then tell me which fighter Foreman has beaten stylistically that leads you to believe confidently Foreman would beat all the fighters I mentioned above.

 

You interpret me corrrectly — I actually came across my previous post on the ‘Four Foremans’ while musing on Big George’s passing.

Some want to chop George up and put the pieces of his career into different boxes: George the Brute in his younger prime, George the Shattered (psychologically) after Ali and a couple iterations of his later ‘old George versions.’

I maintain that there’s basically two versions, young and old. Each had strengths and flaws, but they are distinct from each other in how he fought and what he had physically/mentally. Older George is more relaxed and calculating, younger George is a force of nature. I don’t think there’s a difference between the George who crushed Frazier/Norton and the one who lost to Ali/Young. Just ran into difficult styles for hiim (Ali beat him mentally and Young offset most of Foreman’s offense and fought the best fight of his career to pull the upset.)

I do think there’s a point late in Old George’s career over his last few fights where there was something gone wrong in his right shoulder and he couldn’t get across the right straight like he did against Moorer and, at times, Holyfield, but he’s still the same guy there imo, just a bit more handicapped.

 

George still gets outboxed but most likely to a decision unless he has a panel of judges who hate Young’s style ( which many did. )