James Toney: Wilder is a Failure

Gonna disagree with Toney on the failure part. He did a lot with his limited boxing skills, even with his weak resume.

 

The measure of success is achieving what you can with what you've got.

Wilder was a one trick pony and with that one trick he was able to win a world title, the WBC title no less and he held it from 2015 to 2020. Wilder also made something like $100 million.

If that's failure, I want some of it and so do you and everybody else.

 

don't pretend you know what you don't know, lol.

 

It's great management, getting him a weak champion followed by a series of soft touches.

And it's success of sorts, but his resume is absolutely horrible for such a long title run.

Still, he'll retire rich and his peak will be forever overrated for the KO rate... It's just that the moment you scratch beneath the surface the story doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.


I guess what people forget is that you can have success without getting anywhere near greatness - and how many fighters can epitomise that more completely than Wilder?

 

It’s not that he’s a failure financially.

He made use of his talent to secure lucrative
Deals with a team that new how to exploit that talent.…
& carefully put him in position.
Al haymon match making made Jermall Charlo a millionaire too!

it was smoke & mirrors though homie.
Don’t be fooled by the glitter.

Toney is talking Raw boxing ability here.
Wilder never maximized more boxing abilities
Just relied on the same thing over & over again. That only lasts so long. He failed to learn anymore nuance & wrinkles to his game.
To become a complete fighter along the way.
That’s where he failed.

I love the skills on display in boxing , not a real fan of watching peoples pockets.

I understand where yall are coming from though.

 

Wilder isn't a failure. He managed to pull the wool over a lot of people's eyes. Some of them still think he was a top fighter who just fell out of his prime the moment he started fighting actual decent opposition. He did great with his abysmal lack of talent, balance and and hand eye coordination.

 

You can't develop what's not there in the first place.

 

Oh Wilder is on the serious sauce. Good luck explaining Wilder’s massive weight gain from his fight (around the time of the Helenius fight if I remember correctly) without putting on fat. They’re all on gear.

 

Cmon man he had rare athletic ability
Just lacked that extra crazy nut dedication Ala Roy jones, Money May, Paquiao, he’ll even Márquez much more dedicated student of the game type.

that’s all.

while haymon is dope at exploiting talent & maximizing the dollar for that talent.
He breeds content, lazy fighters baptized in money & not fire.

imo.

 

Funny how the very people who critisized Wilder for lack of ability are now turning around and claiming he under achieved.

 

I wouldn't call Wilder a failure. He started boxing at 20 to pay for his daughters medical bills and end up medaling in the Olympics. Then he became champion and was top 5 in the history of the division in title defenses with 10. He is considered one of the hardest punchers in heavyweight history and he brought excitement to the sport. Hell, he might even end up in the hall of fame. Now was he exposed? Yes. Did he fail in his ultimate goal of becoming undisputed? Yes. But for a guy who picked up boxing so late and had the success he had, he had a hell of a career IMO.

 

I guess it depends whether you think he could've been better or not...

In reality, his ability was limited - looked devastating when managed as he was, but didn't really have that high a ceiling (nowhere near what his fans would have you believe).

Could it have been better? Maybe a bit - he was clearly difficult to train, but that doesn't mean fighting more live competition couldn't have made him a better fighter... Then again, maybe he'd have lost a lot more and folded like a cheap newspaper... We'll never know.

 

An each way bet if ever there was one.

 

I know Wilder himself admitted to ducking AJ, so that's that.

 

Sometimes that's all it's possible to do... It's pure hypothetical anyway - proving he could've been better (or not) simply isn't possible.

If you pushed me... I don't think he could've achieved more or made more money - I do think he could've had a slightly better resume (but he'd have had to take more losses and he'd have been less hyped and made less money across his career to do it - would you make that trade?)